SPAM: Re: Public urination

Darell C. Provencher

2014-09-15

Maybe we need a one-page OBRA Member Code of Behavior (OMCB) on the
website, plus it could be posted at races (with no public urination
highlighted in yellow ;-) I agree with a prolonged time of suspension plus
potential criminal charges for any of the misbehaviors listed in the code.
Final OBRA rulings would be decided by the OBRA Board. The code would apply
to all OBRA riders, officials, and support personnel (e.g., EMTs, corner
marshalls etc. ). The code could also be part of the OBRA release form.
On Sep 15, 2014 12:41 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:

> Seth is right however the description does not match this weekend's
> offenders.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from mobile device
>
> > On Sep 15, 2014, at 11:32, Seth May wrote:
> >
> > Joe, All,
> > The vast majority of the races that happen in OBRA do not mention
> urination on their race flyers, nor is it a requirement they do so. Even
> when it is on a flyer, small print is small print.
> >
> > Think about this from the prospective of a 20 year old, invincible,
> young man, whose arriving to do their first race.
> > - First, they may not know that public urination is criminal. (I
> certainly didn't at that age)
> > - Second, they haven't seen rules or a rule book, because why would
> they?
> > - Third, they are just plain full of nervous excitement for doing
> their first race and are likely over-hydrated to begin with
> >
> > This is the person (among many), that we need to clearly communicate too.
> >
> > Ignorance may not be an excuse, but I would much rather find ways to
> effectively educate and inform than to punish and ostracize folks from our
> community.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Seth
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of
> joec@aracnet.com
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:25 AM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
> >
> > Seth,
> >
> > This notice is posted on race flyers and on the registration page (AIR)
> so to claim ignorance is a poor argument at best and utter laziness in
> general. Especially when the Sani-Kans are close to the registration tables.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >> On 2014-09-15 09:05, Seth May wrote:
> >> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
> >> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience
> >> who know all the rules.
> >>
> >> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
> >> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a
> >> brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one
> >> told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional
> >> racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and
> >> expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this
> >> mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the
> >> last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I
> >> consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.
> >>
> >> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
> >> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least
> >> likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the
> >> punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the
> >> folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.
> >>
> >> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
> >> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
> >> question to ask.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Seth
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David
> >> Rosen
> >> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
> >> To: 'OBRA'
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
> >>
> >> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
> >> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered
> >> a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already
> >> laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
> >>
> >> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was
> >> really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few
> >> people were just plain stupid.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
> >> To: mohair
> >> Cc: OBRA
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
> >>
> >> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea!
> >> We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
> >>
> >> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> >> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or
> >> in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that
> >> look great on your resume?
> >>
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Mike Murray

2014-09-15

Seth is right however the description does not match this weekend's offenders.

Mike Murray
Sent from mobile device

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 11:32, Seth May wrote:
>
> Joe, All,
> The vast majority of the races that happen in OBRA do not mention urination on their race flyers, nor is it a requirement they do so. Even when it is on a flyer, small print is small print.
>
> Think about this from the prospective of a 20 year old, invincible, young man, whose arriving to do their first race.
> - First, they may not know that public urination is criminal. (I certainly didn't at that age)
> - Second, they haven't seen rules or a rule book, because why would they?
> - Third, they are just plain full of nervous excitement for doing their first race and are likely over-hydrated to begin with
>
> This is the person (among many), that we need to clearly communicate too.
>
> Ignorance may not be an excuse, but I would much rather find ways to effectively educate and inform than to punish and ostracize folks from our community.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of joec@aracnet.com
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:25 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> Seth,
>
> This notice is posted on race flyers and on the registration page (AIR) so to claim ignorance is a poor argument at best and utter laziness in general. Especially when the Sani-Kans are close to the registration tables.
>
> Joe
>
>> On 2014-09-15 09:05, Seth May wrote:
>> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
>> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience
>> who know all the rules.
>>
>> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
>> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a
>> brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one
>> told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional
>> racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and
>> expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this
>> mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the
>> last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I
>> consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.
>>
>> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
>> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least
>> likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the
>> punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the
>> folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.
>>
>> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
>> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
>> question to ask.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Seth
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David
>> Rosen
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
>> To: 'OBRA'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
>> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered
>> a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already
>> laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>>
>> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was
>> really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few
>> people were just plain stupid.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
>> To: mohair
>> Cc: OBRA
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea!
>> We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>>
>>
>> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
>> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or
>> in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that
>> look great on your resume?
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org