Dwayne King

Absolutely agree with that, if someone manages to scam the system, it's not my place (or anyone's really) to innteogate them to see if they are disabled. It occurred to me that I went of half-cocked as I didn't see the post Matt was responding to. So I was replying without all the context, which is a great way to put your foot in your mouth.

I will say that I have a long history with handicap issues and find that when I see someone parking without a placard, just saying, "excuse me, it looks like you forgot to put up your placard." Does wonders and the people I've said this to with handicaps generally appriceate people watching out for their rights.

I've calmed down now and will leave this issue alone :)

Sent from portable device, please excuse typos

Mike Murray

I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I did not mean to imply that people without a placard should be able to park in handicap spots because they declare themselves handicapped. I meant the people may be legitimately handicapped but get out of the car looking like they can walk just fine. It is not for us to judge or confront them. This is also not to say that there is not a significant problem with handicap placard scamming, which worsens the problem for the truly handicapped at least as much as others parking in marked spots.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dwayne King
Sender: "OBRA"
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:19:04
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Handicap Parking

Just saw this thread and it has me a little fired up. I'm going to try and be respectful, but I'm a little angry.

Matt, I couldn't agree with you more on all points. I also find it interesting that when there finally was responses they fell more in the camp of, "You don't know, so just leave those people alone." An important point that sees missed by the replies is that parking lot owners don't just set up a handicap parking spot for fun and say it as a friendly suggestion, it's the law that you have a plate or placard. If you park in a handicap spot and don't appear to be handicap and don't have a placard it most certainly is migh right to ask you why you're parked there. If you don't convince me you left your placard at home or move your car Then expect me to call the cops (this is one they actually show up for as they like the $450 fine they impose and towing your car). If you have ptsd go get a placard from your doctor, if your deaf...not sure a doctor is going to approve you for handicap parking, but give it a shot. If you get turned down...walk the extra distance.

In short, you don't get to pick if you can use a handicap spot, the legal system in conjunction with doctors do.

Please excuse typos, sent from portable device
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Dwayne King

Just saw this thread and it has me a little fired up. I'm going to try and be respectful, but I'm a little angry.

Matt, I couldn't agree with you more on all points. I also find it interesting that when there finally was responses they fell more in the camp of, "You don't know, so just leave those people alone." An important point that sees missed by the replies is that parking lot owners don't just set up a handicap parking spot for fun and say it as a friendly suggestion, it's the law that you have a plate or placard. If you park in a handicap spot and don't appear to be handicap and don't have a placard it most certainly is migh right to ask you why you're parked there. If you don't convince me you left your placard at home or move your car Then expect me to call the cops (this is one they actually show up for as they like the $450 fine they impose and towing your car). If you have ptsd go get a placard from your doctor, if your deaf...not sure a doctor is going to approve you for handicap parking, but give it a shot. If you get turned down...walk the extra distance.

In short, you don't get to pick if you can use a handicap spot, the legal system in conjunction with doctors do.

Please excuse typos, sent from portable device

Eric

There are veterans with PTSD who have difficulty walking past parked cars.
Lots of disabilities are invisible, for example four million veterans with
hearing disabilities (which would not get a parking placard).

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:17 AM
To: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] handicap parking

An ancillary point; disabilities may not be obvious from the person's
appearance, i.e. just because the person gets out of the car and appears to
walk just fine is not evidence that they are scamming the system. It
certainly does not mean that you can confront them or ask them what their
disability is.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Cline
Sender: "OBRA"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:45:33
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] handicap parking

First of all, I never chime in on hot threads but had to offer my 2 cents on
this topic.. I very much appreciate Alison posting on this topic and have a
heck of a lot less patience for this "offense" than for public urination.
Alison's post was tactful and polite but assuming you were aware that it is
a handicap space, it is completely unacceptable on all levels if you dont
have a disability (so i will be more blunt than her). If you can race a
bike, you can likely walk that extra distance i hope. As Alison points out,
you likely have no clue what it might be like to walk or wheel from a great
distance with a disability especially in crappy 'cross weather..
Thanks for listening and hope whomever did it was just unaware of the fact
it was a handicap space which is likely the case..
(its slightly disappointing that this topic has caused much less of a stir
than public urination).
Had to say it.. haha!

Matt
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Mike Murray

An ancillary point; disabilities may not be obvious from the person's appearance, i.e. just because the person gets out of the car and appears to walk just fine is not evidence that they are scamming the system. It certainly does not mean that you can confront them or ask them what their disability is.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Cline
Sender: "OBRA"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:45:33
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] handicap parking

First of all, I never chime in on hot threads but had to offer my 2 cents on this topic.. I very much appreciate Alison posting on this topic and have a heck of a lot less patience for this "offense" than for public urination. Alison's post was tactful and polite but assuming you were aware that it is a handicap space, it is completely unacceptable on all levels if you dont have a disability (so i will be more blunt than her). If you can race a bike, you can likely walk that extra distance i hope. As Alison points out, you likely have no clue what it might be like to walk or wheel from a great distance with a disability especially in crappy 'cross weather..
Thanks for listening and hope whomever did it was just unaware of the fact it was a handicap space which is likely the case..
(its slightly disappointing that this topic has caused much less of a stir than public urination).
Had to say it.. haha!

Matt
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Alison Irwin

I would just like to give everyone a friendly reminder to please not park in the handicap parking spaces at the racing events unless you have a handicap permit or license plate. I realize that we do not get a lot of handicap spectators at the races (due to some of the difficult terrains), but we do get some. Saturday's race nearly all of the handicap spaces were filled with non-handicap vehicles, although Sunday was much better. This should apply to everyone including racers, spectators, OBRA officials, promoters and volunteers.

You might be thinking that extra 10 or 20 feet doesn't make that big of a difference to someone, but I assure you that it does. I have a family member with MS and sometimes having that closer space can make the difference between walking on their own with a walker or having to be pushed in a wheelchair. Thank you everyone for paying attention to the handicap spaces when they are available and saving them for people that really need them.