OBRA: OBRA Chat: Gateway Green Community CX

Mike Murray

2014-10-26

I should point out that OBRA is available not just for big races. OBRA can
assist in putting on events of all levels, from small, low attendance races
to big, high attendance races. OBRA also provides resources for
non-competitive events such as clinics, training sessions, etc. The cost to
the organizers is, as much as possible, tied to the participation so smaller
races pay smaller fees. It is best if race organizers contact OBRA very
early in their planning for races as the combined experience in the
organization can help people avoid missteps and excess expenses.

Gateway Green is a great project. I am excited to see it moving forward.
OBRA would be happy to support a competitive or non-competitive event of any
size there (or anywhere for that matter).

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Chris Barney via
OBRA
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:37
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Gateway Green Community CX

The Gateway Green project should be viewed as similar to the Valmont Bike
Park project in Boulder, CO. For those that are not familiar, this part of
Boulder was an awkward piece of land that, over time, has become an
astounding park for all types of bicycle activity. Its transformation from
unused piece of property to US CX Championship site took lots of time,
effort, hard work, and support from the bike community.

The Gateway Green may (or may not) be a future US Championship site but the
community organizers who've been working diligently for the past few years
to initiate its transformation have done a fantastic job. I see their
intent of staging a first CX race as one step in the process. This race
will help raise awareness and support among the Portland an bike community.

As frequent CX racers and OBRA members, we can't expect an OBRA-level event
in their first attempt. My wife and I plan to race at Gateway Green and
realize that the logistics, planning, and coordination may not be to level
we've come to appreciate from our local promoters and OBRA, but we support
this project, understand the ultimate goal of the project, and see this as a
great first step.

I echo the others who've posted promoting this race by saying why not put
some effort into encouraging the project and their CX race, be patient with
their effort to put on a CX race to highlight the future bike part site, and
provide positive assistance where needed.
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T. Kenji Sugahara

2014-10-23

First off- I want to say that this is a great project. NWTA has done
a fantastic job of creating an cycling asset that benefits all of us.

I'm also excited about the event. It will be a great demonstration
project to really see how well a cross race fits into the space. If
it works out well, then it'll be great to have future OBRA events
there. I'm keen on seeing how the entire logistics of the entire
venue work- from parking to registration to course design to
everything else.

Jocelyn- If there's anything that we can do to help, please let us
know. We're excited as you are to have Gateway Green in our
community!

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Chris Barney

2014-10-23

The Gateway Green project should be viewed as similar to the Valmont Bike Park project in Boulder, CO. For those that are not familiar, this part of Boulder was an awkward piece of land that, over time, has become an astounding park for all types of bicycle activity. Its transformation from unused piece of property to US CX Championship site took lots of time, effort, hard work, and support from the bike community.

The Gateway Green may (or may not) be a future US Championship site but the community organizers who've been working diligently for the past few years to initiate its transformation have done a fantastic job. I see their intent of staging a first CX race as one step in the process. This race will help raise awareness and support among the Portland an bike community.

As frequent CX racers and OBRA members, we can't expect an OBRA-level event in their first attempt. My wife and I plan to race at Gateway Green and realize that the logistics, planning, and coordination may not be to level we've come to appreciate from our local promoters and OBRA, but we support this project, understand the ultimate goal of the project, and see this as a great first step.

I echo the others who've posted promoting this race by saying why not put some effort into encouraging the project and their CX race, be patient with their effort to put on a CX race to highlight the future bike part site, and provide positive assistance where needed.

Candi Murray

2014-10-23

There are a few things we can agree on

1. Mike Murray is a Crumudgeon. Always was, always will be. Some of this comes from his long involvement in the organization and the multiple time we have ‘batted cleanup’ after things have gone wrong. Because this venue is on City of Portland property I think he is rightly concerned. My hope is that the usual precautions are being considered.

2. The Gateway Green people posted to the list serve and opened up the discussion. It was the only contact they have made to OBRA, the outreach for attendance at their event. They created the discussion that is happening.

3. I have ridden Gateway Green, in fact I once helped teach a ccx session there. If anyone of you remember seeing me ride ccx, you are now rolling on the floor and I will take a minute before I continue.

4. The area is quite contained and limited. If I was going to assist in promoting an event that would be the focal point of the planning. I would certainly suggest that here be a limit of the number of riders on the course at one time. Access to emergency vehicles is tricky. And exposure to the public is huge. The regular users to the 205 bike path need to be another consideration.

5. A race to me has a start, the competition and a finish with results provided. Reading their material I am not certain that this is what is planned. I think that the term race for this event is what is causing the confusion. This to me is a fundraiser ride and should not be confused as a race. Support them, just don’t be surprised. As always do your own due diligence.

All IMHO

Candi

From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Murray via OBRA
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:24 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: Gateway Green Community CX

OBRA BAR points are only a small part of the OBRA program and races can still use OBRA while opting out of the BAR. I am not so sure that the post statement made it clear enough that OBRA was is not involved. If I had thought that this was clear enough in the original post I would have never posted anything about this race. I am concerned that the things that are usually done to organize a race have been bypassed. This makes me worried that the race will not be well run and safe, although I have no evidence that it will not be. I am also concerned that OBRA will be associated with anything adverse that occurs at this race despite making the lack of OBRA participation clear. There is precedent for this happening. I do not understand why anyone would wish to avoid participation with OBRA as the focus of the organization it to make it easier to put on races as opposed to placing any burden on organizers. Simply, it easier to put on a race using OBRA than it is to do it yourself or to sanction through another organization so you have to wonder why that would be skipped. Hopefully we will get some feedback from the organizers about that. What I expect is the case is that they have never put on a race, don't understand all that is needed and don't know that OBRA could have made it a lot easier.

Mike Murray

Sent from mobile device

On Oct 23, 2014, at 08:46, Andy Meeks via OBRA wrote:

Non-association with OBRA is pretty clear from the first post: "No ORBA [sic] points will be earned.” Are you more worried about the racers who choose to attend with this knowledge having a safe and well-run event, or the fact that no one reached out to OBRA in the first place and chose (for any number of reasons) to organize and run it themselves? I don’t think OBRA’s relevance is threatened in any way by this race, but you sure are making it seem like that’s the case. In fact, Mike, you’re making OBRA seem a bit like a bully and not the excellent organization and community well all know and love.

On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:

I am not clear exactly what an "unofficial" race is. The FB page indicates that the race is permitted by the city which pretty much makes it official. Clearly participation with OBRA is not required to put on a race. The point of my original and subsequent posts is that OBRA has to date not been contacted with regards to this race. I find that unusual as it is extremely easy to contact OBRA and it is far easier and cheaper to put on a race using the services that OBRA provides, some of which I listed in the prior post. What reinvent the wheel? Clearly they are aware of OBRA as they used the list to announce the race. It is my hope that they will respond with information on organizational aspects of the race. They may have flown in a crew of mercenary UCI officials from Switzerland, have a mobile hospital crew and transport helicopter to stand by and a gold plated insurance certificate purchased at great cost. I don't know. We haven't heard from them. There has been no response from my email to the original poster. Regardless, if the race is not associated with OBRA then that fact needs to be publicly stated. It makes sense to make that statement in the forum where the race was announced. I wish them well and hope that their race goes off without a hitch.

Mike Murray

Sent from mobile device

On Oct 23, 2014, at 07:21, Jordan Slone via OBRA wrote:

It's an unsanctioned, unofficial race on city property. From a legal/logistical standpoint you have solid points and those items need coverage in an official race.

Perhaps it would have been more helpful to reach out to the Gateway folks off list and offer to lend a hand, question their protocol for injury, etc, than slam them up and down on list.

It benefits nobody creating an adverse situation with people doing something outside the normal scope.

-Jordan

Jordan Slone
Executive Chef
Bon Appetit Management Company
Cell: (971)-276-7395
Work E-Mail: jordanx.slone@intel.com

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:

I think you guys are missing the point. I am not looking to inhibit participation or inhibit someone from putting on a race. Most of my life has been about trying to do just the opposite. I sure don't want to inhibit the Gateway Green deal as that has been something that has been a long time coming and should be very cool. The questions are:

- Who is going to officiate the race? This is not so much a question of enforcing rules but simply figuring out what places people get. Even with a small turn out this is a non-trivial process. It requires a crew of people with experience doing this and generally some expensive equipment. If there is not a plan to figure out places is this really a race or just a ride?

- Who is setting up the course? It is not uncommon for a race organizer to propose a course that has several problems that would prevent operating a safe and fair race. In these cases the OBRA process will get changes made to work these things out.

- What equipment will be used? It is possible to get cones, fencing, lap board and all the stuff that usually fills the OBRA truck on your own but it is much simpler to just use what we have.

- is there a permission from the land owner to hold the race? Generally to get this you need to provide evidence of liability insurance coverage. This is expensive if purchased for individual races but cheap through OBRA.

- What is the plan for injuries? All cross races have injured people. Fortunately most of them have minor scrapes but more significant injuries happen.

There are more issues but I hope you get the gist. This is not novice vs experienced racer, BAR points or not, OBRA vs non-OBRA thing but really a question about how the stuff that has to happen to have a safe and legal event is going to be covered without involving any of the people or processes that usually do that. It is really not unusual for new race organizers to think that all that stuff will happen as though delivered by magic elves or something. Normally all this stuff will be arranged well in advance of announcing the event on the OBRA list. The first time Candi or Kenji or anyone one associated with OBRA heard anything about this race is when the post was made to the list.

So far we have not heard from the people that announced this race. Hopefully they will respond soon to tell us how they plan to cover this stuff. Time is short so if we are going to have scramble to cover things not thought through before we are going to need to know about it very soon. It may not be do-able in this short time frame.

Mike Murray

Sent from mobile device

On Oct 22, 2014, at 20:32, "stewartcycling@yahoo.com" wrote:

No offence Mike, but I agree with Shane.
Unless this non obra race is conflicting, I fully support it. I've been watching them try to do something with gateway greens for a few years. Hopefully this will spark the politics if local racers show up for this non obra race.
Atleast the promoter clearly stated that it is not an obra race.
As for peeing, Shane, I once took a leek behind your shed. Ha ha
-Stewart

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

_____

From: Shane Gibson via OBRA ;
To: Mike Murray ;
Cc: obra@list.obra.org ; Jocelyn Gaudi ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Gateway Green Community CX
Sent: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:52:58 AM

Seriously Mike? Was that a mis-timed April Fools posting? We all race bikes for fun. Yeah, not every single event run in Oregon is sanctioned through OBRA. Now you're just starting to sound like a USAC official.

We are a community - and encouraging community participation, and the growth of our sport seems to be one of the (or was?) core principles of OBRA. Maybe this year they aren't sanctioned. Maybe they'll have a good turn out, and PP will let more events like this be permitted on park lands. And, then ... maybe next year they'll officially sanction through OBRA.

Dude - I love your hard work and enthusiasm - you have rocked the OBRA scene for years, and I have enjoyed many of the races you've promoted. But really?

Heck - we allow the various random off topic postings on the list as well. Maybe we should start squashing those too? While we're at it, could we please ban any further discussions about peeing; pro or con or otherwise?

~~shane

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:

This race has not requested equipment, insurance, officials, first aid or any other services from OBRA. I am unclear why publicizing it on the OBRA list serve would seem reasonable in that setting.

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Andy Meeks

2014-10-23

Plus, the original post said that they received permit approval from the city and made it clear that it’s not an OBRA/sanctioned event. No one is saying it’s going to be a top-tier, well-organized event. I think it’s awesome to have this diversity and to see the possibilities in using this space in the future.

"To make completely clear – the race aspect of this event is exhibition only and meant to be fun and casual.”

On Oct 23, 2014, at 7:21 AM, Jordan Slone via OBRA wrote:

> It's an unsanctioned, unofficial race on city property. From a legal/logistical standpoint you have solid points and those items need coverage in an official race.
>
> Perhaps it would have been more helpful to reach out to the Gateway folks off list and offer to lend a hand, question their protocol for injury, etc, than slam them up and down on list.
>
> It benefits nobody creating an adverse situation with people doing something outside the normal scope.
>
> -Jordan
>
> Jordan Slone
> Executive Chef
> Bon Appetit Management Company
> Cell: (971)-276-7395
> Work E-Mail: jordanx.slone@intel.com
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
> I think you guys are missing the point. I am not looking to inhibit participation or inhibit someone from putting on a race. Most of my life has been about trying to do just the opposite. I sure don't want to inhibit the Gateway Green deal as that has been something that has been a long time coming and should be very cool. The questions are:
>
> - Who is going to officiate the race? This is not so much a question of enforcing rules but simply figuring out what places people get. Even with a small turn out this is a non-trivial process. It requires a crew of people with experience doing this and generally some expensive equipment. If there is not a plan to figure out places is this really a race or just a ride?
>
> - Who is setting up the course? It is not uncommon for a race organizer to propose a course that has several problems that would prevent operating a safe and fair race. In these cases the OBRA process will get changes made to work these things out.
>
> - What equipment will be used? It is possible to get cones, fencing, lap board and all the stuff that usually fills the OBRA truck on your own but it is much simpler to just use what we have.
>
> - is there a permission from the land owner to hold the race? Generally to get this you need to provide evidence of liability insurance coverage. This is expensive if purchased for individual races but cheap through OBRA.
>
> - What is the plan for injuries? All cross races have injured people. Fortunately most of them have minor scrapes but more significant injuries happen.
>
> There are more issues but I hope you get the gist. This is not novice vs experienced racer, BAR points or not, OBRA vs non-OBRA thing but really a question about how the stuff that has to happen to have a safe and legal event is going to be covered without involving any of the people or processes that usually do that. It is really not unusual for new race organizers to think that all that stuff will happen as though delivered by magic elves or something. Normally all this stuff will be arranged well in advance of announcing the event on the OBRA list. The first time Candi or Kenji or anyone one associated with OBRA heard anything about this race is when the post was made to the list.
>
> So far we have not heard from the people that announced this race. Hopefully they will respond soon to tell us how they plan to cover this stuff. Time is short so if we are going to have scramble to cover things not thought through before we are going to need to know about it very soon. It may not be do-able in this short time frame.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from mobile device
>
> On Oct 22, 2014, at 20:32, "stewartcycling@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
>>
>> No offence Mike, but I agree with Shane.
>> Unless this non obra race is conflicting, I fully support it. I've been watching them try to do something with gateway greens for a few years. Hopefully this will spark the politics if local racers show up for this non obra race.
>> Atleast the promoter clearly stated that it is not an obra race.
>> As for peeing, Shane, I once took a leek behind your shed. Ha ha
>> -Stewart
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>
>>
>> From: Shane Gibson via OBRA ;
>> To: Mike Murray ;
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org ; Jocelyn Gaudi ;
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Gateway Green Community CX
>> Sent: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:52:58 AM
>>
>>
>> Seriously Mike? Was that a mis-timed April Fools posting? We all race bikes for fun. Yeah, not every single event run in Oregon is sanctioned through OBRA. Now you're just starting to sound like a USAC official.
>>
>> We are a community - and encouraging community participation, and the growth of our sport seems to be one of the (or was?) core principles of OBRA. Maybe this year they aren't sanctioned. Maybe they'll have a good turn out, and PP will let more events like this be permitted on park lands. And, then ... maybe next year they'll officially sanction through OBRA.
>>
>> Dude - I love your hard work and enthusiasm - you have rocked the OBRA scene for years, and I have enjoyed many of the races you've promoted. But really?
>>
>> Heck - we allow the various random off topic postings on the list as well. Maybe we should start squashing those too? While we're at it, could we please ban any further discussions about peeing; pro or con or otherwise?
>>
>> ~~shane
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>> This race has not requested equipment, insurance, officials, first aid or any other services from OBRA. I am unclear why publicizing it on the OBRA list serve would seem reasonable in that setting.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jordan Slone

2014-10-23

It's an unsanctioned, unofficial race on city property. From a
legal/logistical standpoint you have solid points and those items need
coverage in an official race.

Perhaps it would have been more helpful to reach out to the Gateway folks
off list and offer to lend a hand, question their protocol for injury, etc,
than slam them up and down on list.

It benefits nobody creating an adverse situation with people doing
something outside the normal scope.

-Jordan

Jordan Slone
Executive Chef
Bon Appetit Management Company
Cell: (971)-276-7395
Work E-Mail: jordanx.slone@intel.com

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA
wrote:

> I think you guys are missing the point. I am not looking to inhibit
> participation or inhibit someone from putting on a race. Most of my life
> has been about trying to do just the opposite. I sure don't want to inhibit
> the Gateway Green deal as that has been something that has been a long time
> coming and should be very cool. The questions are:
>
> - Who is going to officiate the race? This is not so much a question of
> enforcing rules but simply figuring out what places people get. Even with a
> small turn out this is a non-trivial process. It requires a crew of people
> with experience doing this and generally some expensive equipment. If there
> is not a plan to figure out places is this really a race or just a ride?
>
> - Who is setting up the course? It is not uncommon for a race organizer
> to propose a course that has several problems that would prevent operating
> a safe and fair race. In these cases the OBRA process will get changes made
> to work these things out.
>
> - What equipment will be used? It is possible to get cones, fencing, lap
> board and all the stuff that usually fills the OBRA truck on your own but
> it is much simpler to just use what we have.
>
> - is there a permission from the land owner to hold the race? Generally to
> get this you need to provide evidence of liability insurance coverage. This
> is expensive if purchased for individual races but cheap through OBRA.
>
> - What is the plan for injuries? All cross races have injured people.
> Fortunately most of them have minor scrapes but more significant injuries
> happen.
>
> There are more issues but I hope you get the gist. This is not novice vs
> experienced racer, BAR points or not, OBRA vs non-OBRA thing but really a
> question about how the stuff that has to happen to have a safe and legal
> event is going to be covered without involving any of the people or
> processes that usually do that. It is really not unusual for new race
> organizers to think that all that stuff will happen as though delivered by
> magic elves or something. Normally all this stuff will be arranged well in
> advance of announcing the event on the OBRA list. The first time Candi or
> Kenji or anyone one associated with OBRA heard anything about this race is
> when the post was made to the list.
>
> So far we have not heard from the people that announced this race.
> Hopefully they will respond soon to tell us how they plan to cover this
> stuff. Time is short so if we are going to have scramble to cover things
> not thought through before we are going to need to know about it very soon.
> It may not be do-able in this short time frame.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from mobile device
>
> On Oct 22, 2014, at 20:32, "stewartcycling@yahoo.com" <
> stewartcycling@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> No offence Mike, but I agree with Shane.
> Unless this non obra race is conflicting, I fully support it. I've been
> watching them try to do something with gateway greens for a few years.
> Hopefully this will spark the politics if local racers show up for this non
> obra race.
> Atleast the promoter clearly stated that it is not an obra race.
> As for peeing, Shane, I once took a leek behind your shed. Ha ha
> -Stewart
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
> ------------------------------
> * From: * Shane Gibson via OBRA ;
> * To: * Mike Murray ;
> * Cc: * obra@list.obra.org ; Jocelyn Gaudi <
> jbgaudi@gmail.com>;
> * Subject: * Re: [OBRA Chat] Gateway Green Community CX
> * Sent: * Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:52:58 AM
>
>
> Seriously Mike? Was that a mis-timed April Fools posting? We all race
> bikes for fun. Yeah, not every single event run in Oregon is sanctioned
> through OBRA. Now you're just starting to sound like a USAC official.
>
> We are a community - and encouraging community participation, and the
> growth of our sport seems to be one of the (or was?) core principles of
> OBRA. Maybe this year they aren't sanctioned. Maybe they'll have a good
> turn out, and PP will let more events like this be permitted on park
> lands. And, then ... maybe next year they'll officially sanction through
> OBRA.
>
> Dude - I love your hard work and enthusiasm - you have rocked the OBRA
> scene for years, and I have enjoyed many of the races you've promoted. But
> really?
>
> Heck - we allow the various random off topic postings on the list as
> well. Maybe we should start squashing those too? While we're at it, could
> we please ban any further discussions about peeing; pro or con or
> otherwise?
>
> ~~shane
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> This race has not requested equipment, insurance, officials, first aid or
>> any other services from OBRA. I am unclear why publicizing it on the OBRA
>> list serve would seem reasonable in that setting.
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>