Andy Meeks
Non-association with OBRA is pretty clear from the first post: "No ORBA [sic] points will be earned.” Are you more worried about the racers who choose to attend with this knowledge having a safe and well-run event, or the fact that no one reached out to OBRA in the first place and chose (for any number of reasons) to organize and run it themselves? I don’t think OBRA’s relevance is threatened in any way by this race, but you sure are making it seem like that’s the case. In fact, Mike, you’re making OBRA seem a bit like a bully and not the excellent organization and community well all know and love.
On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
> I am not clear exactly what an "unofficial" race is. The FB page indicates that the race is permitted by the city which pretty much makes it official. Clearly participation with OBRA is not required to put on a race. The point of my original and subsequent posts is that OBRA has to date not been contacted with regards to this race. I find that unusual as it is extremely easy to contact OBRA and it is far easier and cheaper to put on a race using the services that OBRA provides, some of which I listed in the prior post. What reinvent the wheel? Clearly they are aware of OBRA as they used the list to announce the race. It is my hope that they will respond with information on organizational aspects of the race. They may have flown in a crew of mercenary UCI officials from Switzerland, have a mobile hospital crew and transport helicopter to stand by and a gold plated insurance certificate purchased at great cost. I don't know. We haven't heard from them. There has been no response from my email to the original poster. Regardless, if the race is not associated with OBRA then that fact needs to be publicly stated. It makes sense to make that statement in the forum where the race was announced. I wish them well and hope that their race goes off without a hitch.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from mobile device
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 07:21, Jordan Slone via OBRA wrote:
>
>> It's an unsanctioned, unofficial race on city property. From a legal/logistical standpoint you have solid points and those items need coverage in an official race.
>>
>> Perhaps it would have been more helpful to reach out to the Gateway folks off list and offer to lend a hand, question their protocol for injury, etc, than slam them up and down on list.
>>
>> It benefits nobody creating an adverse situation with people doing something outside the normal scope.
>>
>> -Jordan
>>
>> Jordan Slone
>> Executive Chef
>> Bon Appetit Management Company
>> Cell: (971)-276-7395
>> Work E-Mail: jordanx.slone@intel.com
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>> I think you guys are missing the point. I am not looking to inhibit participation or inhibit someone from putting on a race. Most of my life has been about trying to do just the opposite. I sure don't want to inhibit the Gateway Green deal as that has been something that has been a long time coming and should be very cool. The questions are:
>>
>> - Who is going to officiate the race? This is not so much a question of enforcing rules but simply figuring out what places people get. Even with a small turn out this is a non-trivial process. It requires a crew of people with experience doing this and generally some expensive equipment. If there is not a plan to figure out places is this really a race or just a ride?
>>
>> - Who is setting up the course? It is not uncommon for a race organizer to propose a course that has several problems that would prevent operating a safe and fair race. In these cases the OBRA process will get changes made to work these things out.
>>
>> - What equipment will be used? It is possible to get cones, fencing, lap board and all the stuff that usually fills the OBRA truck on your own but it is much simpler to just use what we have.
>>
>> - is there a permission from the land owner to hold the race? Generally to get this you need to provide evidence of liability insurance coverage. This is expensive if purchased for individual races but cheap through OBRA.
>>
>> - What is the plan for injuries? All cross races have injured people. Fortunately most of them have minor scrapes but more significant injuries happen.
>>
>> There are more issues but I hope you get the gist. This is not novice vs experienced racer, BAR points or not, OBRA vs non-OBRA thing but really a question about how the stuff that has to happen to have a safe and legal event is going to be covered without involving any of the people or processes that usually do that. It is really not unusual for new race organizers to think that all that stuff will happen as though delivered by magic elves or something. Normally all this stuff will be arranged well in advance of announcing the event on the OBRA list. The first time Candi or Kenji or anyone one associated with OBRA heard anything about this race is when the post was made to the list.
>>
>> So far we have not heard from the people that announced this race. Hopefully they will respond soon to tell us how they plan to cover this stuff. Time is short so if we are going to have scramble to cover things not thought through before we are going to need to know about it very soon. It may not be do-able in this short time frame.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from mobile device
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 20:32, "stewartcycling@yahoo.com" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No offence Mike, but I agree with Shane.
>>> Unless this non obra race is conflicting, I fully support it. I've been watching them try to do something with gateway greens for a few years. Hopefully this will spark the politics if local racers show up for this non obra race.
>>> Atleast the promoter clearly stated that it is not an obra race.
>>> As for peeing, Shane, I once took a leek behind your shed. Ha ha
>>> -Stewart
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Shane Gibson via OBRA ;
>>> To: Mike Murray ;
>>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org ; Jocelyn Gaudi ;
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Gateway Green Community CX
>>> Sent: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:52:58 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Seriously Mike? Was that a mis-timed April Fools posting? We all race bikes for fun. Yeah, not every single event run in Oregon is sanctioned through OBRA. Now you're just starting to sound like a USAC official.
>>>
>>> We are a community - and encouraging community participation, and the growth of our sport seems to be one of the (or was?) core principles of OBRA. Maybe this year they aren't sanctioned. Maybe they'll have a good turn out, and PP will let more events like this be permitted on park lands. And, then ... maybe next year they'll officially sanction through OBRA.
>>>
>>> Dude - I love your hard work and enthusiasm - you have rocked the OBRA scene for years, and I have enjoyed many of the races you've promoted. But really?
>>>
>>> Heck - we allow the various random off topic postings on the list as well. Maybe we should start squashing those too? While we're at it, could we please ban any further discussions about peeing; pro or con or otherwise?
>>>
>>> ~~shane
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>>> This race has not requested equipment, insurance, officials, first aid or any other services from OBRA. I am unclear why publicizing it on the OBRA list serve would seem reasonable in that setting.
>>>
>>
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