Benjamin Drucker
To Mike's point, it would be cool if there were some first aid available at
the race, just in case. I know I've used that before at OBRA races.
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA
wrote:
> OBRA BAR points are only a small part of the OBRA program and races can
> still use OBRA while opting out of the BAR. I am not so sure that the post
> statement made it clear enough that OBRA was is not involved. If I had
> thought that this was clear enough in the original post I would have never
> posted anything about this race. I am concerned that the things that are
> usually done to organize a race have been bypassed. This makes me worried
> that the race will not be well run and safe, although I have no evidence
> that it will not be. I am also concerned that OBRA will be associated with
> anything adverse that occurs at this race despite making the lack of OBRA
> participation clear. There is precedent for this happening. I do not
> understand why anyone would wish to avoid participation with OBRA as the
> focus of the organization it to make it easier to put on races as opposed
> to placing any burden on organizers. Simply, it easier to put on a race
> using OBRA than it is to do it yourself or to sanction through another
> organization so you have to wonder why that would be skipped. Hopefully we
> will get some feedback from the organizers about that. What I expect is the
> case is that they have never put on a race, don't understand all that is
> needed and don't know that OBRA could have made it a lot easier.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from mobile device
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 08:46, Andy Meeks via OBRA wrote:
>
>
> Non-association with OBRA is pretty clear from the first post: "No ORBA
> [sic] points will be earned.” Are you more worried about the racers who
> choose to attend with this knowledge having a safe and well-run event, or
> the fact that no one reached out to OBRA in the first place and chose (for
> any number of reasons) to organize and run it themselves? I don’t think
> OBRA’s relevance is threatened in any way by this race, but you sure are
> making it seem like that’s the case. In fact, Mike, you’re making OBRA seem
> a bit like a bully and not the excellent organization and community well
> all know and love.
>
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> I am not clear exactly what an "unofficial" race is. The FB page indicates
> that the race is permitted by the city which pretty much makes it official.
> Clearly participation with OBRA is not required to put on a race. The point
> of my original and subsequent posts is that OBRA has to date not been
> contacted with regards to this race. I find that unusual as it is extremely
> easy to contact OBRA and it is far easier and cheaper to put on a race
> using the services that OBRA provides, some of which I listed in the prior
> post. What reinvent the wheel? Clearly they are aware of OBRA as they used
> the list to announce the race. It is my hope that they will respond with
> information on organizational aspects of the race. They may have flown in a
> crew of mercenary UCI officials from Switzerland, have a mobile hospital
> crew and transport helicopter to stand by and a gold plated insurance
> certificate purchased at great cost. I don't know. We haven't heard from
> them. There has been no response from my email to the original poster.
> Regardless, if the race is not associated with OBRA then that fact needs to
> be publicly stated. It makes sense to make that statement in the forum
> where the race was announced. I wish them well and hope that their race
> goes off without a hitch.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from mobile device
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 07:21, Jordan Slone via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> It's an unsanctioned, unofficial race on city property. From a
> legal/logistical standpoint you have solid points and those items need
> coverage in an official race.
>
> Perhaps it would have been more helpful to reach out to the Gateway folks
> off list and offer to lend a hand, question their protocol for injury, etc,
> than slam them up and down on list.
>
> It benefits nobody creating an adverse situation with people doing
> something outside the normal scope.
>
> -Jordan
>
> Jordan Slone
> Executive Chef
> Bon Appetit Management Company
> Cell: (971)-276-7395
> Work E-Mail: jordanx.slone@intel.com
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> I think you guys are missing the point. I am not looking to inhibit
>> participation or inhibit someone from putting on a race. Most of my life
>> has been about trying to do just the opposite. I sure don't want to inhibit
>> the Gateway Green deal as that has been something that has been a long time
>> coming and should be very cool. The questions are:
>>
>> - Who is going to officiate the race? This is not so much a question of
>> enforcing rules but simply figuring out what places people get. Even with a
>> small turn out this is a non-trivial process. It requires a crew of people
>> with experience doing this and generally some expensive equipment. If there
>> is not a plan to figure out places is this really a race or just a ride?
>>
>> - Who is setting up the course? It is not uncommon for a race organizer
>> to propose a course that has several problems that would prevent operating
>> a safe and fair race. In these cases the OBRA process will get changes made
>> to work these things out.
>>
>> - What equipment will be used? It is possible to get cones, fencing, lap
>> board and all the stuff that usually fills the OBRA truck on your own but
>> it is much simpler to just use what we have.
>>
>> - is there a permission from the land owner to hold the race? Generally
>> to get this you need to provide evidence of liability insurance coverage.
>> This is expensive if purchased for individual races but cheap through OBRA.
>>
>> - What is the plan for injuries? All cross races have injured people.
>> Fortunately most of them have minor scrapes but more significant injuries
>> happen.
>>
>> There are more issues but I hope you get the gist. This is not novice vs
>> experienced racer, BAR points or not, OBRA vs non-OBRA thing but really a
>> question about how the stuff that has to happen to have a safe and legal
>> event is going to be covered without involving any of the people or
>> processes that usually do that. It is really not unusual for new race
>> organizers to think that all that stuff will happen as though delivered by
>> magic elves or something. Normally all this stuff will be arranged well in
>> advance of announcing the event on the OBRA list. The first time Candi or
>> Kenji or anyone one associated with OBRA heard anything about this race is
>> when the post was made to the list.
>>
>> So far we have not heard from the people that announced this race.
>> Hopefully they will respond soon to tell us how they plan to cover this
>> stuff. Time is short so if we are going to have scramble to cover things
>> not thought through before we are going to need to know about it very soon.
>> It may not be do-able in this short time frame.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from mobile device
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 20:32, "stewartcycling@yahoo.com" <
>> stewartcycling@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> No offence Mike, but I agree with Shane.
>> Unless this non obra race is conflicting, I fully support it. I've been
>> watching them try to do something with gateway greens for a few years.
>> Hopefully this will spark the politics if local racers show up for this non
>> obra race.
>> Atleast the promoter clearly stated that it is not an obra race.
>> As for peeing, Shane, I once took a leek behind your shed. Ha ha
>> -Stewart
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> * From: * Shane Gibson via OBRA ;
>> * To: * Mike Murray ;
>> * Cc: * obra@list.obra.org ; Jocelyn Gaudi <
>> jbgaudi@gmail.com>;
>> * Subject: * Re: [OBRA Chat] Gateway Green Community CX
>> * Sent: * Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:52:58 AM
>>
>>
>> Seriously Mike? Was that a mis-timed April Fools posting? We all race
>> bikes for fun. Yeah, not every single event run in Oregon is sanctioned
>> through OBRA. Now you're just starting to sound like a USAC official.
>>
>> We are a community - and encouraging community participation, and the
>> growth of our sport seems to be one of the (or was?) core principles of
>> OBRA. Maybe this year they aren't sanctioned. Maybe they'll have a good
>> turn out, and PP will let more events like this be permitted on park
>> lands. And, then ... maybe next year they'll officially sanction through
>> OBRA.
>>
>> Dude - I love your hard work and enthusiasm - you have rocked the OBRA
>> scene for years, and I have enjoyed many of the races you've promoted. But
>> really?
>>
>> Heck - we allow the various random off topic postings on the list as
>> well. Maybe we should start squashing those too? While we're at it, could
>> we please ban any further discussions about peeing; pro or con or
>> otherwise?
>>
>> ~~shane
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA > > wrote:
>>
>>> This race has not requested equipment, insurance, officials, first aid
>>> or any other services from OBRA. I am unclear why publicizing it on the
>>> OBRA list serve would seem reasonable in that setting.
>>>
>>>
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