Matt Mallet

I just wanted to clarify my previous post. No disrespect or ill will was intended toward any race promoters for cancelling a race. I completely understand why they would need to do that based on certain circumstances (predicted weather, uncertain turnout).

Likewise, my suggestion about call ups based on pre-registration, was not a suggestion that it was "fairer" or better. I think we can all agree that the current system where we give the best an additional advantage is just the American way;)
Callups are totally the prerogative of the promoter, I was just suggesting that their may be a different way to use this tool, depending on how important you feel pre-registration is to the viability of your event.

Just to be on the safe side, I decided to preregister for a few events. I am throwing a party at my house after the Corvallis cross classic and I want to make sure the event happens.

rond..@spiritone.com

Corn Cross will be a great race if it was like last year. We might get to
use my new colorful barriers a full 41cm high. A great way to support a
local race that is getting support from not just local business, but City of
Sandy etc.
General call ups as are done now in several ways at least keep the start
from being a push and shove cluster as it used to be, but call up based on
pre reg. is the LEAST fair with regard race history. Ben nailed that one.
I still go back to what I experienced as a kid where the jalopy / super
modified racers were started in reverse order in the main races. That meant
that the fastest qualifiers started in the back and had to EARN the win
instead of driving away off the front while everyone else was washed away in
the flood. It almost always worked perfectly that the 8 or so drivers at
the ass end of the start field finished in the top 10, including 99.9% of
the time one of them taking the win.
If you ride faster, you pass people. That can be done from the rear. The
most important aspect from my perspective is to courteous (you do not have
to be super sweet) to people you pass or if you are being passed. Every
person racing deserves respect. My field is small (60+), but I have not
gotten a call up the last 3 Crusade races. I usually did not get a call up
the last year I raced in the 50+ as I remember.
The way they group the different fields in my view is quite good. Most
riders have pretty similar skillsets and fitness. Of course there are
exceptions on both ends of that, but we are fortunate to be racing in the
groups in our timeslot.
To be honest, I think we bike racers ( I will include myself and friend Hugh
Ford) can be real babies about a good amount of trivial crap related to
racing our bikes. Most of us do not see our meltdowns however.
When I take over as president of UCI, I plan to make some changes that will
please many Beginners, C's, Singlespeeders and Clydes. Take heart OBRA
racers, there might be changes blowin' in the wind.
ronnie

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Guernsey via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Promoters, callups and pre-reg

Just to throw out another racer's perspective��� I hate call-ups based on
pre-reg. How fast you can click and open your wallet for a front row spot
seems incredibly arbitrary. I've done it for USAC races too, seemed silly
then, seems silly now. May as well just not have call ups or do them
randomly. Kudos to Pedaler's for basing call-ups on Crusade. Seems like the
simplest and best idea. BAR is not a bad idea if you can isolate CX from
other disciplines, but does not seem to factor in field size.

Agree with Mike that pre-reg is not a very good predictor for attendance (if
anything its calendar placement, weather and how good/fun the venue
historically is). I never pre-reg anymore. Reason? It's too easy to get
injured or get called in to work. The $2.75 (or whatever) it saves is not
worth it. DDCX2 being cancelled is unfortunate, I liked it's previous slot
as a close to PDX race for people who can't make it out to Halloween in
Bend. I hope Corn Cross is an awesome replacement for that spot.

BG
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Ben Guernsey

Just to throw out another racer's perspective��� I hate call-ups based on pre-reg. How fast you can click and open your wallet for a front row spot seems incredibly arbitrary. I've done it for USAC races too, seemed silly then, seems silly now. May as well just not have call ups or do them randomly. Kudos to Pedaler's for basing call-ups on Crusade. Seems like the simplest and best idea. BAR is not a bad idea if you can isolate CX from other disciplines, but does not seem to factor in field size.

Agree with Mike that pre-reg is not a very good predictor for attendance (if anything its calendar placement, weather and how good/fun the venue historically is). I never pre-reg anymore. Reason? It's too easy to get injured or get called in to work. The $2.75 (or whatever) it saves is not worth it. DDCX2 being cancelled is unfortunate, I liked it's previous slot as a close to PDX race for people who can't make it out to Halloween in Bend. I hope Corn Cross is an awesome replacement for that spot.

BG

Erik Voldengen

Regarding incentive:

Dealing with race logistics (setup/clean up/venue damage), with little
confidence of enough people attending your event to even break even with
the required investment leaves little to no incentive for the promoter to
proceed. Put on a race yourself and you'll quickly see it's not worth it.

- Erik

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Matt Mallet via OBRA
wrote:

> This weekend a race was cancelled, partly based on the promoter saying
> there was a lack of pre-registration.
>
> Just an observation, but promoters are offering exactly zero incentive to
> pre-register. A $5 discount is pretty standard, but not for OBRA CX.
> In any case, with lots of races (at least one every Saturday and Sunday)
> and OR weather being what it is, why would
> promoters expect anyone to pre-register. There is no incentive.
>
> And then callups. Back East, at least where I was racing in NY, a lot of
> races just based callups on order of preregistration.
> I have to be honest, I like Canby, but the "phantom" call up list for that
> race was hilarious. Why would you make a call-up list based on
> people who aren't even registered for your race. Brad, Angelina, Tom
> Cruise, I know you put them on your guest list, but
> guess what they are not showing up. Again, it would cost promoters
> exactly zero to base callups on order of pre-registration and it
> would probably get you more pre-registrations and also spare the rest of
> us listening to you read a list of names at the start for
> people that are not even there. I get it, for the GPRT series or Cross
> Crusade, yes call up the leaders, but again, it should only be
> based on pre-reg (assuming promoters prefer pre-reg).
>
> Finally, since I have a good rant going, why is Peddlar's (OBRA
> championship) basing callup's on Cross Crusade? So arbitrary, if anything
> why not base it on BAR since it is the ORBA (Not the Cross Crusade)
> championship. Even better, why not base callups on random order
> of pre-entries, it is a championship, why not keep it open instead of
> letting the rich get richer. The field will probably be small, so callups
> won't really matter, but basing it on Cross Crusade just puts more
> emphasis on that circus (and it is a great circus) instead of spreading the
> love
> around.
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> obra@list.obra.org
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>

Mike Murray

At the very least race organizers should stop looking at preregistration to predict the the turn out for the race. Especially when the weather predictions are dicey I doubt that there is a good correlation. It is likely that some races that have low preregistration will have a large number of participants.

Mike Murray
Sent from mobile device

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 22:29, Ryan Francesconi via OBRA wrote:
>
> I agree with this. There are only 2 races that I pre-register for... The first GP series event and Kruger's. The only reason I do is that it determines call-up order. Kris Schamp has it nailed in my opinion. Other promoters should really take note of how his events are organized. There really is no reason to pre-register otherwise. For example for Boring CX this weekend, it is $5 cheaper to pre-register. However, then you have to pay the $2.25 booking fee, so you're only saving $2.75. However if Boring said... order of pre-reg will be the call-up order, I'd already be registered. (Like I am for Krugers already - which is AT THE END OF NOVEMBER)
>
> please take note, promoters! :)
>
> Thanks, Ryan
>
>
>
> Matt Mallet
> October 27, 2014 at 8:16 PM Reply
> This weekend a race was cancelled, partly based on the promoter saying there was a lack of pre-registration.
>
> Just an observation, but promoters are offering exactly zero incentive to pre-register. A $5 discount is pretty standard, but not for OBRA CX.
> In any case, with lots of races (at least one every Saturday and Sunday) and OR weather being what it is, why would
> promoters expect anyone to pre-register. There is no incentive.
>
> And then callups. Back East, at least where I was racing in NY, a lot of races just based callups on order of preregistration.
> I have to be honest, I like Canby, but the "phantom" call up list for that race was hilarious. Why would you make a call-up list based on
> people who aren't even registered for your race. Brad, Angelina, Tom Cruise, I know you put them on your guest list, but
> guess what they are not showing up. Again, it would cost promoters exactly zero to base callups on order of pre-registration and it
> would probably get you more pre-registrations and also spare the rest of us listening to you read a list of names at the start for
> people that are not even there. I get it, for the GPRT series or Cross Crusade, yes call up the leaders, but again, it should only be
> based on pre-reg (assuming promoters prefer pre-reg).
>
> Finally, since I have a good rant going, why is Peddlar's (OBRA championship) basing callup's on Cross Crusade? So arbitrary, if anything
> why not base it on BAR since it is the ORBA (Not the Cross Crusade) championship. Even better, why not base callups on random order
> of pre-entries, it is a championship, why not keep it open instead of letting the rich get richer. The field will probably be small, so callups
> won't really matter, but basing it on Cross Crusade just puts more emphasis on that circus (and it is a great circus) instead of spreading the love
> around.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Ryan Francesconi

I agree with this. There are only 2 races that I pre-register for... The first GP series event and Kruger's. The only reason I do is that it determines call-up order. Kris Schamp has it nailed in my opinion. Other promoters should really take note of how his events are organized. There really is no reason to pre-register otherwise. For example for Boring CX this weekend, it is $5 cheaper to pre-register. However, then you have to pay the $2.25 booking fee, so you're only saving $2.75. However if Boring said... order of pre-reg will be the call-up order, I'd already be registered. (Like I am for Krugers already - which is AT THE END OF NOVEMBER)

please take note, promoters! :)

Thanks, Ryan

Matt Mallet
October 27, 2014 at 8:16 PM Reply
This weekend a race was cancelled, partly based on the promoter saying there was a lack of pre-registration.

Just an observation, but promoters are offering exactly zero incentive to pre-register. A $5 discount is pretty standard, but not for OBRA CX.
In any case, with lots of races (at least one every Saturday and Sunday) and OR weather being what it is, why would
promoters expect anyone to pre-register. There is no incentive.

And then callups. Back East, at least where I was racing in NY, a lot of races just based callups on order of preregistration.
I have to be honest, I like Canby, but the "phantom" call up list for that race was hilarious. Why would you make a call-up list based on
people who aren't even registered for your race. Brad, Angelina, Tom Cruise, I know you put them on your guest list, but
guess what they are not showing up. Again, it would cost promoters exactly zero to base callups on order of pre-registration and it
would probably get you more pre-registrations and also spare the rest of us listening to you read a list of names at the start for
people that are not even there. I get it, for the GPRT series or Cross Crusade, yes call up the leaders, but again, it should only be
based on pre-reg (assuming promoters prefer pre-reg).

Finally, since I have a good rant going, why is Peddlar's (OBRA championship) basing callup's on Cross Crusade? So arbitrary, if anything
why not base it on BAR since it is the ORBA (Not the Cross Crusade) championship. Even better, why not base callups on random order
of pre-entries, it is a championship, why not keep it open instead of letting the rich get richer. The field will probably be small, so callups
won't really matter, but basing it on Cross Crusade just puts more emphasis on that circus (and it is a great circus) instead of spreading the love
around.

Matt Mallet

This weekend a race was cancelled, partly based on the promoter saying there was a lack of pre-registration.

Just an observation, but promoters are offering exactly zero incentive to pre-register. A $5 discount is pretty standard, but not for OBRA CX.
In any case, with lots of races (at least one every Saturday and Sunday) and OR weather being what it is, why would
promoters expect anyone to pre-register. There is no incentive.

And then callups. Back East, at least where I was racing in NY, a lot of races just based callups on order of preregistration.
I have to be honest, I like Canby, but the "phantom" call up list for that race was hilarious. Why would you make a call-up list based on
people who aren't even registered for your race. Brad, Angelina, Tom Cruise, I know you put them on your guest list, but
guess what they are not showing up. Again, it would cost promoters exactly zero to base callups on order of pre-registration and it
would probably get you more pre-registrations and also spare the rest of us listening to you read a list of names at the start for
people that are not even there. I get it, for the GPRT series or Cross Crusade, yes call up the leaders, but again, it should only be
based on pre-reg (assuming promoters prefer pre-reg).

Finally, since I have a good rant going, why is Peddlar's (OBRA championship) basing callup's on Cross Crusade? So arbitrary, if anything
why not base it on BAR since it is the ORBA (Not the Cross Crusade) championship. Even better, why not base callups on random order
of pre-entries, it is a championship, why not keep it open instead of letting the rich get richer. The field will probably be small, so callups
won't really matter, but basing it on Cross Crusade just puts more emphasis on that circus (and it is a great circus) instead of spreading the love
around.