rond..@spiritone.com

Yeah....many great places........King’s Estates was epic. All that stuff we rode through is probably now planted in grapes however. Nothing stays the same.
If not doing any “OBRA” event this Saturday, offering support for the G. Green event might be helpful to bring that group and maybe the Portland Parks back into the fold. As a citizen of Portland, I personally think bike racing should have a place in the “Portland Parks and Recreation” mission!
ronnie

From: Robert Jackson via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:35 AM
To: Dan H
Cc: OBRA List ; Rick Boston
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

I think the gateway green event this weekend is an attempt to bring cross back to the Portland Parks and Rec.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Dan H via OBRA wrote:

Pier park was one of the best. Gabriel park was good too. I don't think we can ever go back to the parks. There used to be 30 or 40 racers in each of maybe 4 categories. There was room to park and the course could be less than 2 miles. There were over 1100 competitors at PIR last weekend. Where are you going to host that kind of numbers?

From: Tim Schauer via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:29 AM
To: Scott Jones
Cc: OBRA List ; Rick Boston
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

I have had the privilege of racing many different OBRA championship venues. There have been flat championships and hilly championships. There have been courses close to PDX and some further away. I like that it rotates every two years. Having a new course every year doesn't give you as much an opportunity to prepare or adapt year over year if you wanted to target the champs the following year. If you really want to see your favorite course as the champs next year, encourage that promoter to bid for the champs and offer to help them make it happen.

I will offer that there are two courses I miss from the past that I dream about making a return to the schedule as the champs or not.

These are my favorite course from the past that are no more.....What are yours?

1. Estacada Timber Park
2. Jackson Park or School
3. King's Estate Winery
4. Pier Park

These courses were awesome!

Tim Schauer
MacKay Sposito
Mobile 360 904 0748
Direct line 360 823 1313

This message was sent from my smart phone

On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:48 AM, Scott Jones via OBRA wrote:

The Championship courses are bid on every 2 years. So Edgefield had it in 2013 and 2014. Unless only the Edgefield promoter submits a proposal (which I highly doubt will be the case) then the event will be at a different venue in 2015.

On Nov 12, 2014 12:29 AM, "Rick Boston via OBRA" wrote:

Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is, in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun, ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt. Tabor every year....
R
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--

Robert M. Jackson
RMJacksonIV@gmail.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Robert Jackson

I think the gateway green event this weekend is an attempt to bring cross
back to the Portland Parks and Rec.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Dan H via OBRA wrote:

> Pier park was one of the best. Gabriel park was good too. I don't think
> we can ever go back to the parks. There used to be 30 or 40 racers in each
> of maybe 4 categories. There was room to park and the course could be less
> than 2 miles. There were over 1100 competitors at PIR last weekend. Where
> are you going to host that kind of numbers?
>
> *From:* Tim Schauer via OBRA
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:29 AM
> *To:* Scott Jones
> *Cc:* OBRA List ; Rick Boston
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!
>
> I have had the privilege of racing many different OBRA championship
> venues. There have been flat championships and hilly championships. There
> have been courses close to PDX and some further away. I like that it
> rotates every two years. Having a new course every year doesn't give you as
> much an opportunity to prepare or adapt year over year if you wanted to
> target the champs the following year. If you really want to see your
> favorite course as the champs next year, encourage that promoter to bid for
> the champs and offer to help them make it happen.
>
> I will offer that there are two courses I miss from the past that I dream
> about making a return to the schedule as the champs or not.
>
> These are my favorite course from the past that are no more.....What are
> yours?
>
> 1. Estacada Timber Park
> 2. Jackson Park or School
> 3. King's Estate Winery
> 4. Pier Park
>
> These courses were awesome!
>
>
>
> Tim Schauer
> MacKay Sposito
> Mobile 360 904 0748
> Direct line 360 823 1313
>
> This message was sent from my smart phone
>
> On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:48 AM, Scott Jones via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> The Championship courses are bid on every 2 years. So Edgefield had it
> in 2013 and 2014. Unless only the Edgefield promoter submits a proposal
> (which I highly doubt will be the case) then the event will be at a
> different venue in 2015.
> On Nov 12, 2014 12:29 AM, "Rick Boston via OBRA"
> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a
>> quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends
>> before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has
>> chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the
>> last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and
>> ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am
>> far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of
>> actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I
>> understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of
>> riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can
>> favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders
>> have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to
>> hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is,
>> in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
>> turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field
>> of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was
>> less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who
>> frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
>> I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race
>> either bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8
>> races for the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year?
>> Why not hold the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict
>> with other races?
>> Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this
>> course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun,
>> ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours
>> with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO
>> greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging
>> course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt.
>> Tabor every year....
>> R
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Robert M. Jackson
RMJacksonIV@gmail.com

Rick Boston

I always enjoy the different perspectives that come from the cycling community and I find that I always learn something. I was unaware of the 2 year bid/contract to hold the championships. That makes WAY more sense to me now and I can see how the next venue could be drastically different for the next 2 years; thanks for the info and the input! Look forward to seeing everyone out at Barton this weekend!
Rick

Dan H

Pier park was one of the best. Gabriel park was good too. I don't think we can ever go back to the parks. There used to be 30 or 40 racers in each of maybe 4 categories. There was room to park and the course could be less than 2 miles. There were over 1100 competitors at PIR last weekend. Where are you going to host that kind of numbers?

From: Tim Schauer via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:29 AM
To: Scott Jones
Cc: OBRA List ; Rick Boston
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

I have had the privilege of racing many different OBRA championship venues. There have been flat championships and hilly championships. There have been courses close to PDX and some further away. I like that it rotates every two years. Having a new course every year doesn't give you as much an opportunity to prepare or adapt year over year if you wanted to target the champs the following year. If you really want to see your favorite course as the champs next year, encourage that promoter to bid for the champs and offer to help them make it happen.

I will offer that there are two courses I miss from the past that I dream about making a return to the schedule as the champs or not.

These are my favorite course from the past that are no more.....What are yours?

1. Estacada Timber Park
2. Jackson Park or School
3. King's Estate Winery
4. Pier Park

These courses were awesome!

Tim Schauer
MacKay Sposito
Mobile 360 904 0748
Direct line 360 823 1313

This message was sent from my smart phone

On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:48 AM, Scott Jones via OBRA wrote:

The Championship courses are bid on every 2 years. So Edgefield had it in 2013 and 2014. Unless only the Edgefield promoter submits a proposal (which I highly doubt will be the case) then the event will be at a different venue in 2015.

On Nov 12, 2014 12:29 AM, "Rick Boston via OBRA" wrote:

Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is, in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun, ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt. Tabor every year....
R
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Tim Schauer

I have had the privilege of racing many different OBRA championship venues.
There have been flat championships and hilly championships. There have been
courses close to PDX and some further away. I like that it rotates every
two years. Having a new course every year doesn't give you as much an
opportunity to prepare or adapt year over year if you wanted to target the
champs the following year. If you really want to see your favorite course
as the champs next year, encourage that promoter to bid for the champs and
offer to help them make it happen.

I will offer that there are two courses I miss from the past that I dream
about making a return to the schedule as the champs or not.

These are my favorite course from the past that are no more.....What are
yours?

1. Estacada Timber Park
2. Jackson Park or School
3. King's Estate Winery
4. Pier Park

These courses were awesome!

Tim Schauer
MacKay Sposito
Mobile 360 904 0748
Direct line 360 823 1313

This message was sent from my smart phone

On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:48 AM, Scott Jones via OBRA
wrote:

The Championship courses are bid on every 2 years. So Edgefield had it in
2013 and 2014. Unless only the Edgefield promoter submits a proposal (which
I highly doubt will be the case) then the event will be at a different
venue in 2015.
On Nov 12, 2014 12:29 AM, "Rick Boston via OBRA" wrote:

> Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a
> quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends
> before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has
> chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the
> last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and
> ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am
> far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of
> actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I
> understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of
> riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can
> favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders
> have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to
> hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is,
> in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
> turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field
> of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was
> less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who
> frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
> I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either
> bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for
> the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold
> the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
> Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this
> course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun,
> ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours
> with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO
> greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging
> course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt.
> Tabor every year....
> R
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rond..@spiritone.com

For me Edgefield was the toughest course I have done this year (and I did not even finish). But! I loved it totally. The next day pre-ride of PIR was like a flat crit (before first race), then the rain came and turned it into one of the most fun things I have done all year....and it was pretty much flat as you know.

As Scott said.......the champ races move around as they should. The years I have raced have seen many. Wa. Co. Fairgrounds, OR state fairgrounds, West Salem HS, Estacada Timber Park etc. On both Saturdays and Sundays.
Rick. Don’t label yourself as a sprinter/largish type. Unless it is DRY that does not mean much in Cross. By the way. You worked your tail off getting to the A’s and now you are probably riding faster than you imagine even on those hilly courses!
What will this weekend bring?
ronnie

From: Scott Jones via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 7:18 AM
To: Rick Boston
Cc: OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

The Championship courses are bid on every 2 years. So Edgefield had it in 2013 and 2014. Unless only the Edgefield promoter submits a proposal (which I highly doubt will be the case) then the event will be at a different venue in 2015.

On Nov 12, 2014 12:29 AM, "Rick Boston via OBRA" wrote:

Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is, in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun, ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt. Tabor every year....
R
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Scott Jones

The Championship courses are bid on every 2 years. So Edgefield had it in
2013 and 2014. Unless only the Edgefield promoter submits a proposal (which
I highly doubt will be the case) then the event will be at a different
venue in 2015.
On Nov 12, 2014 12:29 AM, "Rick Boston via OBRA" wrote:

> Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a
> quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends
> before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has
> chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the
> last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and
> ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am
> far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of
> actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I
> understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of
> riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can
> favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders
> have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to
> hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is,
> in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
> turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field
> of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was
> less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who
> frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
> I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either
> bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for
> the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold
> the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
> Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this
> course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun,
> ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours
> with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO
> greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging
> course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt.
> Tabor every year....
> R
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Dolan Halbrook

Rick, I think you're spot on that the venue for the state championships
should vary in location and that it should be held at the end of the
season. As fun as Edgefield was (and it was awesome) it's probably not the
best overall indicator of overall rider ability.

However, as one of those "smallish" climbing types who is just getting back
into racing, I was thrilled to finally see a cross course with a halfway
decent amount of vertical. Given how NOT flat our state is, I've been
consistently surprised by how generally flat so many of the cross courses
have been...

And holding the OBRA Crit Championship at Mt Tabor? Sounds awesome to me :)

-- Dolan

On Wed Nov 12 2014 at 12:29:21 AM Rick Boston via OBRA
wrote:

> Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a
> quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends
> before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has
> chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the
> last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and
> ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am
> far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of
> actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I
> understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of
> riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can
> favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders
> have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to
> hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is,
> in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
> turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field
> of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was
> less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who
> frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
> I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either
> bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for
> the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold
> the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
> Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this
> course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun,
> ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours
> with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO
> greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging
> course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt.
> Tabor every year....
> R
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rick Boston

Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so I was only able to take a quick break during my lunch time to go cheer on some teammates and friends before heading back to work: that being said: I find it weird that OBRA has chosen to latch onto this race and make it the STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS for the last couple years. It is an EXTREME course that favors climbers and ironically, runners. Don't get me wrong, as a "largish" sprinter type, I am far more comfortable on flat, technical courses that don't have a lot of actual elevation in them ( think:Blind Date or PDX Trophy Cup), but I understand the need to have a variety of courses that suit a variety of riders. As in most "championship races" the course from year to year can favor a different type of rider (it's why such a wide variety of riders have worn the World Championship jersey of the decades), but to continue to hold the STATE Championships at the same extreme course year after year is, in my opinion, a narrow minded approach. The
turn out for a State Championship Race was really low (the "Large" field of the Master C men barely had 40 riders and the "Pro or Elite" field was less than 20. ) Hardly an accurate representation of the riders who frequent the races throughout the Fall for Cyclocross.
I shot photos and watched, most of my friends who consistently race either bailed on the course or were saving themselves for the 7th of 8 races for the cross crusade. Why not change the venue from year to year? Why not hold the race AT THE END OF THE SEASON when it doesn't conflict with other races?
Edgefield, I love you; (come on baby, you know I do) and I've raced this course, actually, on the first year it was held. That was a fun, ridiculously insane course where at some point I was crawling on all fours with my bike over my shoulder trying to crawl up the "run Up" that was SO greasy it was barely crawl-able. I think that this is a fun and challenging course; but, it would be like holding the Obra Crit Championship on Mt. Tabor every year....
R

Dan Anderson

Overall, that course was AWESOME.  I love climbing.
My only suggestion (speaking as someone who has absolutely ZERO experience in course design), is to move ALL of those barriers somewhere else on the course.  There was no need to have barriers right before that downhill, since you had to slow down to maintain control for the climb right after it -- you couldn't just bomb down the hill anyway.  And there was no need for a barrier before or after(!) the runup.  
ATMO, barriers work best near the end of a long straight, where skilled riders can dismount/remount quickly and gain an advantage.  There was no significant difference in remounting in any of the three locations, as far as I could tell, except perhaps on the uphill one after the runup.

From: Dan Anderson via OBRA
To: "rondot@spiritone.com" ; Rob Anderson ; "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

Agree that it's dangerous to put a barrier right at the beginning of (or near the top of) a descent, forcing a remount where you are lucky to get your feet in.  In 2012, I don't know if I ever pulled that off -- I mostly just bounced down the hill on my slippery saddle, feet flying in the air.  I prefer room after a barrier where I can remount at a full run -- that's where you can pass people if you have good remounting skills! 

From: rondot--- via OBRA
To: Rob Anderson ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

Move it a little farther up from the drop so there is time to clip in if
they still want a barrier in that general location might be one option.
I was not fond of it, but it also MAKES all of us deal with it.  I had some
sketchy times there and think the ideal would be as mentioned some TIGHT
corners right before to slow riders down.  Maybe put the barrier somewhere
else as they are important to get our butts off the bike.  A cross course
where you hardly need to get off the bike is usually not one that really
tests racers cross skills, but instead fitness levels.  Crits are for that
right?  I agree a move of the barrier would be a positive.........but if it
stays, we just deal with it.  Edgefield is a fantastic venue...I wish we had
a couple of races there.
If anyone knows the promoter(s)........I would suggest being sure he/she
sees this information.  Might impact course layout decisions.  They may not
even look at chat.
ron s.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Anderson via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 2:01 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

Edgefield organizers have done a fantastic job each year with that venue,
given what there is to work with on the property.

In 2012, it was a nearly a straight-line drop from the top of the course
right into that downhill barrier at speed.  Fun but terrifying each lap.
The 2013 version of the course added a number of 180-degree switchbacks in
the field before the downhill barrier, but the switchbacks didn't apparently
slow the riders down enough -- so the barrier stayed in.

I don't like that placement either for all the reasons mentioned, but that's
just my opinion.  :-)
There are probably a couple of alternative ways to lay out that section that
might use the terrain in a creative way.
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Dan Anderson

Agree that it's dangerous to put a barrier right at the beginning of (or near the top of) a descent, forcing a remount where you are lucky to get your feet in.  In 2012, I don't know if I ever pulled that off -- I mostly just bounced down the hill on my slippery saddle, feet flying in the air.  I prefer room after a barrier where I can remount at a full run -- that's where you can pass people if you have good remounting skills! 

From: rondot--- via OBRA
To: Rob Anderson ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

Move it a little farther up from the drop so there is time to clip in if
they still want a barrier in that general location might be one option.
I was not fond of it, but it also MAKES all of us deal with it.  I had some
sketchy times there and think the ideal would be as mentioned some TIGHT
corners right before to slow riders down.  Maybe put the barrier somewhere
else as they are important to get our butts off the bike.  A cross course
where you hardly need to get off the bike is usually not one that really
tests racers cross skills, but instead fitness levels.  Crits are for that
right?  I agree a move of the barrier would be a positive.........but if it
stays, we just deal with it.  Edgefield is a fantastic venue...I wish we had
a couple of races there.
If anyone knows the promoter(s)........I would suggest being sure he/she
sees this information.  Might impact course layout decisions.  They may not
even look at chat.
ron s.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Anderson via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 2:01 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

Edgefield organizers have done a fantastic job each year with that venue,
given what there is to work with on the property.

In 2012, it was a nearly a straight-line drop from the top of the course
right into that downhill barrier at speed.  Fun but terrifying each lap.
The 2013 version of the course added a number of 180-degree switchbacks in
the field before the downhill barrier, but the switchbacks didn't apparently
slow the riders down enough -- so the barrier stayed in.

I don't like that placement either for all the reasons mentioned, but that's
just my opinion.  :-)
There are probably a couple of alternative ways to lay out that section that
might use the terrain in a creative way.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rond..@spiritone.com

Move it a little farther up from the drop so there is time to clip in if
they still want a barrier in that general location might be one option.
I was not fond of it, but it also MAKES all of us deal with it. I had some
sketchy times there and think the ideal would be as mentioned some TIGHT
corners right before to slow riders down. Maybe put the barrier somewhere
else as they are important to get our butts off the bike. A cross course
where you hardly need to get off the bike is usually not one that really
tests racers cross skills, but instead fitness levels. Crits are for that
right? I agree a move of the barrier would be a positive.........but if it
stays, we just deal with it. Edgefield is a fantastic venue...I wish we had
a couple of races there.
If anyone knows the promoter(s)........I would suggest being sure he/she
sees this information. Might impact course layout decisions. They may not
even look at chat.
ron s.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Anderson via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 2:01 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Corn Cross was great, and so is Edgefield!

Edgefield organizers have done a fantastic job each year with that venue,
given what there is to work with on the property.

In 2012, it was a nearly a straight-line drop from the top of the course
right into that downhill barrier at speed. Fun but terrifying each lap.
The 2013 version of the course added a number of 180-degree switchbacks in
the field before the downhill barrier, but the switchbacks didn't apparently
slow the riders down enough -- so the barrier stayed in.

I don't like that placement either for all the reasons mentioned, but that's
just my opinion. :-)
There are probably a couple of alternative ways to lay out that section that
might use the terrain in a creative way.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ryan Garner

If the point of the downhill barrier is to slow you down, why don't you just slow down for the barrier. A nice slow dismount/remount will prevent you from pinch flatting and allow you the time needed to get clipped back into your pedals. I have learned over the years that sometimes you have to slow down to go faster.

Rob Anderson

Edgefield organizers have done a fantastic job each year with that venue, given what there is to work with on the property.

In 2012, it was a nearly a straight-line drop from the top of the course right into that downhill barrier at speed. Fun but terrifying each lap.
The 2013 version of the course added a number of 180-degree switchbacks in the field before the downhill barrier, but the switchbacks didn't apparently slow the riders down enough -- so the barrier stayed in.

I don't like that placement either for all the reasons mentioned, but that's just my opinion. :-)
There are probably a couple of alternative ways to lay out that section that might use the terrain in a creative way.

The voice of the people!

The smaller races, as we all know, are the best. Super fun, super challenging courses, super duper non-lethal rider fields! You don't often hear how a racer got his bike trampled by 140 raging Master C's at these races. Pure heaven!

Moreover, there's usually a spot or two on the course, an idea or ideal even, that the promotor thinks is quite nifty. Usually it is! An off-camber that makes you pucker up, a hay bale barrier that claims one out of six riders, a shear drop into a mud pit that makes one debate about even racing. These are all great, but, what isn't great... is a downhill barrier.

Are we gonna have that slightly sketchy slightly downhill barrier at the top of the big downhill at Edgefield again? The one where you're remounting on rocky terrain, pinch flatting and possibly ending your race, or otherwise descending this awe-inspiring descent without even having time to clip back in? I've already heard from a few folk around town that they aren't racing Edgefield this year BECAUSE of this barrier. So, why is it there?

I asked the promoter a few years ago about it, wondering on the reasoning for its placement, as a downhill barrier was always a big no-no last I heard. "It's to keep the riders safe," was the basic gist. But... it's a downhill barrier! One of mankind's most inherently UNsafe creations ever. If you don't trust an unexperienced rider to navigate the gigantic downhill in the race, how do you expect them to do it more safely with a pinch flat and not clipped in? We truly and sincerely appreciate the gesture, but the application isn't working as well as intended. Maybe just a few super tight jogs in the course to slow people down, akin to those at Blind Date At The Dairy to slow folk down before the drop-in. I know, I know, this will employ the use of stakes and course tape over the fan-favorite red and yellow cones, but please please please, get rid of that barrier. Edgefield is so good! Make it way more better(er)!

Thank you!

The Voice