John Prada

Hey c'mon. My right shifter brakes all the time. Come to think of it, so does the left one. Oh wait... never mind.

> On Feb 10, 2015, at 9:57 PM, Dan H via OBRA wrote:
>
> Mike, by "shift wires" I mean cable and housing sets. Srams 1:1 cable pull ratio means a stiffer push than Shimano systems so clean smooth cables are a must for smooth accurate shifting. When the cable/housing system begins to degrade from wear and contamination, the shifting gets gradually stiffer. You might not notice it until you install a new wire set and remember how they supposed to feel. I have seen over and over again where people let the "wires" degrade to the point where they have to push the lever harder and harder until it finally snaps and they never know why. That's why the high end Red shifters come with slick PTFE coated "wires". They work smoother longer but cost more money. If you want the best performance from your Sram shifters, pay extra for a super slick wire set and prepare the housing ends carefully, to the proper length and routed with as few curves as possible. That's the major advantage of Di2. No cables to get dirty and worn.
> I know these things because I have worked as mechanic for pro teams, neutral support at lots of races and I have been servicing bikes almost every day in a bike shop since before there was such a company as Sram.
> Especially working neutral support I have seen lots and lots of equipment failures due to neglect including all manner parts falling off. In fact, I have seen a lot more components fail from wear and tear than from crashes.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Mike Richardson"
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 9:25 PM
> To: "Dan H"
> Cc: "Chad Butler" ;
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sram Levers
>
>> By shift wires do you mean cables? I've never personally seen a shifter broken by failing to replace cables, just bikes that "won't shift" they say.
>> Maybe you travel in a rougher crowd and they push til something snaps.
>>
>> Most actual shifter replacements I see are crash or tip over damage. Or Shimano stuff missing tiny bits which you can't buy anywhere - so you hope the shop has an old box of random parts in a corner.
>>
>> I don't often see empty CO2 cartridges but almost never ride a trail without seeing gel wrappers and energy bar trash. My pet peeve.
>>
>> Wait, is Gevenalle the new Retroshifter? Love them. I'm with Chad, nothing's gone wrong to fix there yet. Anybody had one break??
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Dan H via OBRA wrote:
>>>
>>> Co2 cartridges are easily recycled and Sram shifters wouldn't break if the
>>> people using them would replace their shift wires once in a while. Sram
>>> has a pretty good warranty anyway. I've had them replace several sets over
>>> the years even though they out of warranty and not purchased at our store.
>>> I have Sram shifters on my race bike and my rain/trainer bike that have
>>> lasted for years because I clean my bike periodically and change the wires
>>> once in a while.
>>> Garbage is watermelon rinds. Metal and paper is trash unless you recycle
>>> it then it's a Kia.
>>>
>>>> On Wed, February 11, 2015 6:44 am, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
>>>> I see so many postings of people wanting to buy single right side Sram
>>>> br/ifters. I've got a small pile of broken ones myself. Too bad they're
>>>> not made to the quality of their pricetag. At some point I just have to
>>>> quit buying future garbage. I switched one of my bikes over to Gevenalle
>>>> about a year ago and even if that ends up with some sort of issue it's
>>>> completely rebuildable for something around $30-40, but so far it's been
>>>> a flawless system.
>>>>
>>>> I mostly notice patterns of things like broken shifters if I've
>>>> experienced it myself. As a matter of community support, and as a matter
>>>> of consumer feedback, is there any common product in cycling that you
>>>> recognize as future garbage? I can't quite understand the entitlement of
>>>> co2 cartriges for filling flats. Some people just don't see them as
>>>> garbage because they already see the whole world as their garbage can
>>>> (one of my pet peeves).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today on a ride I returned a cigarette butt to a motorist and told them
>>>> "you dropped a $500 fine!". Garbage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> C'mon, get on my soap box!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> chad butler _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan Anderson

I set up a DIY sealed cable system for my Rival system last season in cross, using the Jagwire lining kit and heat shrink/super glue over every ferrule, and they seem to me to be shifting exactly the same today as when I first installed them.  Then again, my standards aren't very high.  If my right shifter breaks, it's good to know I can buy a single right SRAM shifter to replace it.  Wonder when Gevenalle will start selling single right shifters?
Dan
From: Robert Jackson via OBRA
To: Steven Beardsley
Cc: OBRA ; Chad Butler
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sram Levers

Seems like they are halfway there if they have one broken shifter. 

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Steven Beardsley via OBRA wrote:

Sounds like y'all should get single speeds.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:

 co2 cartidges being 'recyclable'  just refers to which waste bin you throw it in. Recyclable isn't a magic word that makes it karma free. It's a product that requires extraction of resources, industrial energy consumption, labor, packaging, etc. AND is a single use once and done item. That type of product isn't just bad for our home (earth), it's poison thinking for our brains.

In regards to the Sram levers, it's helpful to know the excuse for why they break all the time. Those parts being too fragile to overcome the extra friction of a dirty cable. Maybe they're a better product for someone that has the support of a team mechanic, or who wouldn't dare to think of using them for muddy cross, unless they enjoy unwrapping and rewrapping their bars all the time to replace shift cables and housings which once used for a bit look great in the 'recycle' bin. Another brand of shifters I use (on my cx bike) now allows me to change cables without unwrapping my bars making upkeep much easier.

I do have Sram shifters on my road bike which are working flawlessly with jagwire cables (which I love), however, I did replace it only one month ago, again.

chad butler
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Sent from mobile, please excuse typos and brevity.

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Robert Jackson

Seems like they are halfway there if they have one broken shifter.

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Steven Beardsley via OBRA <
obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

> Sounds like y'all should get single speeds.
>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Chad Butler via OBRA > wrote:
>
>> co2 cartidges being 'recyclable' just refers to which waste bin you
>> throw it in. Recyclable isn't a magic word that makes it karma free. It's a
>> product that requires extraction of resources, industrial energy
>> consumption, labor, packaging, etc. AND is a single use once and done item.
>> That type of product isn't just bad for our home (earth), it's poison
>> thinking for our brains.
>>
>> In regards to the Sram levers, it's helpful to know the excuse for why
>> they break all the time. Those parts being too fragile to overcome the
>> extra friction of a dirty cable. Maybe they're a better product for someone
>> that has the support of a team mechanic, or who wouldn't dare to think of
>> using them for muddy cross, unless they enjoy unwrapping and rewrapping
>> their bars all the time to replace shift cables and housings which once
>> used for a bit look great in the 'recycle' bin. Another brand of shifters I
>> use (on my cx bike) now allows me to change cables without unwrapping my
>> bars making upkeep much easier.
>>
>> I do have Sram shifters on my road bike which are working flawlessly with
>> jagwire cables (which I love), however, I did replace it only one month
>> ago, again.
>>
>> chad butler
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>

--
Sent from mobile, please excuse typos and brevity.

Steven Beardsley

Sounds like y'all should get single speeds.

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Chad Butler via OBRA
wrote:

> co2 cartidges being 'recyclable' just refers to which waste bin you
> throw it in. Recyclable isn't a magic word that makes it karma free. It's a
> product that requires extraction of resources, industrial energy
> consumption, labor, packaging, etc. AND is a single use once and done item.
> That type of product isn't just bad for our home (earth), it's poison
> thinking for our brains.
>
> In regards to the Sram levers, it's helpful to know the excuse for why
> they break all the time. Those parts being too fragile to overcome the
> extra friction of a dirty cable. Maybe they're a better product for someone
> that has the support of a team mechanic, or who wouldn't dare to think of
> using them for muddy cross, unless they enjoy unwrapping and rewrapping
> their bars all the time to replace shift cables and housings which once
> used for a bit look great in the 'recycle' bin. Another brand of shifters I
> use (on my cx bike) now allows me to change cables without unwrapping my
> bars making upkeep much easier.
>
> I do have Sram shifters on my road bike which are working flawlessly with
> jagwire cables (which I love), however, I did replace it only one month
> ago, again.
>
> chad butler
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Chad Butler

co2 cartidges being 'recyclable' just refers to which waste bin you throw it in. Recyclable isn't a magic word that makes it karma free. It's a product that requires extraction of resources, industrial energy consumption, labor, packaging, etc. AND is a single use once and done item. That type of product isn't just bad for our home (earth), it's poison thinking for our brains.

In regards to the Sram levers, it's helpful to know the excuse for why they break all the time. Those parts being too fragile to overcome the extra friction of a dirty cable. Maybe they're a better product for someone that has the support of a team mechanic, or who wouldn't dare to think of using them for muddy cross, unless they enjoy unwrapping and rewrapping their bars all the time to replace shift cables and housings which once used for a bit look great in the 'recycle' bin. Another brand of shifters I use (on my cx bike) now allows me to change cables without unwrapping my bars making upkeep much easier.

I do have Sram shifters on my road bike which are working flawlessly with jagwire cables (which I love), however, I did replace it only one month ago, again.

chad butler

Dan H

Mike, by "shift wires" I mean cable and housing sets. Srams 1:1 cable pull
ratio means a stiffer push than Shimano systems so clean smooth cables are a
must for smooth accurate shifting. When the cable/housing system begins to
degrade from wear and contamination, the shifting gets gradually stiffer.
You might not notice it until you install a new wire set and remember how
they supposed to feel. I have seen over and over again where people let the
"wires" degrade to the point where they have to push the lever harder and
harder until it finally snaps and they never know why. That's why the high
end Red shifters come with slick PTFE coated "wires". They work smoother
longer but cost more money. If you want the best performance from your Sram
shifters, pay extra for a super slick wire set and prepare the housing ends
carefully, to the proper length and routed with as few curves as possible.
That's the major advantage of Di2. No cables to get dirty and worn.
I know these things because I have worked as mechanic for pro teams, neutral
support at lots of races and I have been servicing bikes almost every day in
a bike shop since before there was such a company as Sram.
Especially working neutral support I have seen lots and lots of equipment
failures due to neglect including all manner parts falling off. In fact, I
have seen a lot more components fail from wear and tear than from crashes.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mike Richardson"
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 9:25 PM
To: "Dan H"
Cc: "Chad Butler" ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sram Levers

> By shift wires do you mean cables? I've never personally seen a shifter
> broken by failing to replace cables, just bikes that "won't shift" they
> say.
> Maybe you travel in a rougher crowd and they push til something snaps.
>
> Most actual shifter replacements I see are crash or tip over damage. Or
> Shimano stuff missing tiny bits which you can't buy anywhere - so you hope
> the shop has an old box of random parts in a corner.
>
> I don't often see empty CO2 cartridges but almost never ride a trail
> without seeing gel wrappers and energy bar trash. My pet peeve.
>
> Wait, is Gevenalle the new Retroshifter? Love them. I'm with Chad,
> nothing's gone wrong to fix there yet. Anybody had one break??
>
> Mike
>
>> On Feb 10, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Dan H via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> Co2 cartridges are easily recycled and Sram shifters wouldn't break if
>> the
>> people using them would replace their shift wires once in a while. Sram
>> has a pretty good warranty anyway. I've had them replace several sets
>> over
>> the years even though they out of warranty and not purchased at our
>> store.
>> I have Sram shifters on my race bike and my rain/trainer bike that have
>> lasted for years because I clean my bike periodically and change the
>> wires
>> once in a while.
>> Garbage is watermelon rinds. Metal and paper is trash unless you recycle
>> it then it's a Kia.
>>
>>> On Wed, February 11, 2015 6:44 am, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
>>> I see so many postings of people wanting to buy single right side Sram
>>> br/ifters. I've got a small pile of broken ones myself. Too bad they're
>>> not made to the quality of their pricetag. At some point I just have to
>>> quit buying future garbage. I switched one of my bikes over to Gevenalle
>>> about a year ago and even if that ends up with some sort of issue it's
>>> completely rebuildable for something around $30-40, but so far it's been
>>> a flawless system.
>>>
>>> I mostly notice patterns of things like broken shifters if I've
>>> experienced it myself. As a matter of community support, and as a matter
>>> of consumer feedback, is there any common product in cycling that you
>>> recognize as future garbage? I can't quite understand the entitlement of
>>> co2 cartriges for filling flats. Some people just don't see them as
>>> garbage because they already see the whole world as their garbage can
>>> (one of my pet peeves).
>>>
>>>
>>> Today on a ride I returned a cigarette butt to a motorist and told them
>>> "you dropped a $500 fine!". Garbage.
>>>
>>>
>>> C'mon, get on my soap box!
>>>
>>>
>>> chad butler _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Richardson

By shift wires do you mean cables? I've never personally seen a shifter broken by failing to replace cables, just bikes that "won't shift" they say.
Maybe you travel in a rougher crowd and they push til something snaps.

Most actual shifter replacements I see are crash or tip over damage. Or Shimano stuff missing tiny bits which you can't buy anywhere - so you hope the shop has an old box of random parts in a corner.

I don't often see empty CO2 cartridges but almost never ride a trail without seeing gel wrappers and energy bar trash. My pet peeve.

Wait, is Gevenalle the new Retroshifter? Love them. I'm with Chad, nothing's gone wrong to fix there yet. Anybody had one break??

Mike

> On Feb 10, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Dan H via OBRA wrote:
>
> Co2 cartridges are easily recycled and Sram shifters wouldn't break if the
> people using them would replace their shift wires once in a while. Sram
> has a pretty good warranty anyway. I've had them replace several sets over
> the years even though they out of warranty and not purchased at our store.
> I have Sram shifters on my race bike and my rain/trainer bike that have
> lasted for years because I clean my bike periodically and change the wires
> once in a while.
> Garbage is watermelon rinds. Metal and paper is trash unless you recycle
> it then it's a Kia.
>
>> On Wed, February 11, 2015 6:44 am, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
>> I see so many postings of people wanting to buy single right side Sram
>> br/ifters. I've got a small pile of broken ones myself. Too bad they're
>> not made to the quality of their pricetag. At some point I just have to
>> quit buying future garbage. I switched one of my bikes over to Gevenalle
>> about a year ago and even if that ends up with some sort of issue it's
>> completely rebuildable for something around $30-40, but so far it's been
>> a flawless system.
>>
>> I mostly notice patterns of things like broken shifters if I've
>> experienced it myself. As a matter of community support, and as a matter
>> of consumer feedback, is there any common product in cycling that you
>> recognize as future garbage? I can't quite understand the entitlement of
>> co2 cartriges for filling flats. Some people just don't see them as
>> garbage because they already see the whole world as their garbage can
>> (one of my pet peeves).
>>
>>
>> Today on a ride I returned a cigarette butt to a motorist and told them
>> "you dropped a $500 fine!". Garbage.
>>
>>
>> C'mon, get on my soap box!
>>
>>
>> chad butler _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan H

Co2 cartridges are easily recycled and Sram shifters wouldn't break if the
people using them would replace their shift wires once in a while. Sram
has a pretty good warranty anyway. I've had them replace several sets over
the years even though they out of warranty and not purchased at our store.
I have Sram shifters on my race bike and my rain/trainer bike that have
lasted for years because I clean my bike periodically and change the wires
once in a while.
Garbage is watermelon rinds. Metal and paper is trash unless you recycle
it then it's a Kia.

On Wed, February 11, 2015 6:44 am, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
> I see so many postings of people wanting to buy single right side Sram
> br/ifters. I've got a small pile of broken ones myself. Too bad they're
> not made to the quality of their pricetag. At some point I just have to
> quit buying future garbage. I switched one of my bikes over to Gevenalle
> about a year ago and even if that ends up with some sort of issue it's
> completely rebuildable for something around $30-40, but so far it's been
> a flawless system.
>
> I mostly notice patterns of things like broken shifters if I've
> experienced it myself. As a matter of community support, and as a matter
> of consumer feedback, is there any common product in cycling that you
> recognize as future garbage? I can't quite understand the entitlement of
> co2 cartriges for filling flats. Some people just don't see them as
> garbage because they already see the whole world as their garbage can
> (one of my pet peeves).
>
>
> Today on a ride I returned a cigarette butt to a motorist and told them
> "you dropped a $500 fine!". Garbage.
>
>
> C'mon, get on my soap box!
>
>
> chad butler _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Chad Butler

I see so many postings of people wanting to buy single right side Sram br/ifters. I've got a small pile of broken ones myself. Too bad they're not made to the quality of their pricetag. At some point I just have to quit buying future garbage. I switched one of my bikes over to Gevenalle about a year ago and even if that ends up with some sort of issue it's completely rebuildable for something around $30-40, but so far it's been a flawless system.

I mostly notice patterns of things like broken shifters if I've experienced it myself. As a matter of community support, and as a matter of consumer feedback, is there any common product in cycling that you recognize as future garbage? I can't quite understand the entitlement of co2 cartriges for filling flats. Some people just don't see them as garbage because they already see the whole world as their garbage can (one of my pet peeves).

Today on a ride I returned a cigarette butt to a motorist and told them "you dropped a $500 fine!". Garbage.

C'mon, get on my soap box!

chad butler