Custom paint job recommendations

Harry Phinney

2015-07-22

You really want to hear from the aluminum frame or tubing manufacturer.
This is not a black-and-white, OK-or-not question. Many aluminum frames
are built with 6061 alloy aluminum, and are fully heat treated after
welding. The last portion of the heat treatment is termed "artificial
aging", and for 6061 is typically performed at temperatures around 300 F
to 400 F for specific periods of time that are on the order of one to
several hours. For any given temperature within the range there is an
optimum aging duration past which the metal's strength begins decrease
rather than increase. Going past this optimal point, either via too high
a temperature or too long a duration or some combination, is termed
"over aging". The peaks in these strength vs aging curves are not
terribly sharp - i.e. the strength losses for a _little_ over aging are
not huge. The bad news is that powder coat is generally cured at
temperatures in the upper range of the age hardening temperatures
(around 400 F / 200 C), and 20 minutes (a typical powder curing time) at
400 F can significantly reduce the strength of a previously optimally
hardened 6061 frame.

Other frames are made from 7005 alloy aluminum, and the proper post-weld
heat treatment consists of artificial aging at temperatures around 200 F
to 320 F for (depending on temperature) between 4 and 6 hours. I do not
know what affect 20 minutes at 400 F would have on a 7005 frame.

If you are going to get an Al frame powder coated then at least have the
coater use the lowest temperature and shortest cure time as is practical.

Harry Phinney

On 07/21/2015 06:58 PM, via OBRA wrote:
> It would be nice if someone is or knows a professional powder coater
> and would be willing to give us the information from that
> perspective. I had an aluminum frame powder coated and never saw any
> signs of a problem. I ended up selling the bike and if it does break
> and cause physical damage that would be bad! So, somebody who is or
> knows please give us more info. Powder coat is amazingly tough. I
> personally do not believe it is that much of a threat to alum. but
> only have the fact that many alum. products ARE finished with powder
> coat to base my belief.
> ron


rond..@spiritone.com

2015-07-22

It would be nice if someone is or knows a professional powder coater and would be willing to give us the information from that perspective. I had an aluminum frame powder coated and never saw any signs of a problem. I ended up selling the bike and if it does break and cause physical damage that would be bad! So, somebody who is or knows please give us more info. Powder coat is amazingly tough. I personally do not believe it is that much of a threat to alum. but only have the fact that many alum. products ARE finished with powder coat to base my belief.
ron
From: john via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:32 AM
To: Jason Skelton
Cc: Obra Chat ; Hugh Givens
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Custom paint job recommendations

"So is my powder coated aluminum frame a ticking time bomb?"
Naah. not a bomb, just maybe your strengths aren't what they were. So fatigue strength is reduced, meaning there might be location (a stress riser) on your frame where stress level is high enough that yeah a crack might form and start growing some day. Or maybe not. Just depends on the material strength, geometry of stress riser, and the stress put into the frame. The failure won't be catastrophic, unlike say a fork steer tube, since you have two stays and a down tube and top tube; one might fail but not both at once, ( and you'll know when one tube goes, you'll be able to safely stop. Also Occasionally look over your frame for cracks ( in the paint) ... Otherwise just ride the bike.
Bike frames are almost always more than strong enough, when they are made to be stiff enough for practical use . And to state obvious, elastic modulus doesn't change so frame stiffness is the same (and does not change..) .

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA wrote:

So is my powder coated aluminum frame a ticking time bomb? It does
look pretty though.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Hugh Givens via OBRA

wrote:
> Bre is absolutely right. Powder coating is a really, really bad idea for any heat-treated alloy.
>
> Being peripherally involved in motorsport I can tell you that the baking process of powder coating destroys an alloy automobile wheel's ability to withstand impact and stress. Don't do it.
>
> HG
>
> Bre Rue
> July 19, 2015 at 3:05 PM
>
> Hi Lisa,
> If you are wanting to paint your aluminum frame and it has been heat
> treated from the factory (75% of aluminum bikes are), powdercoating will
> take the heat treatment out of the frame and possibly shorten the life of
> your frame. I used to both race and consult for Cannondale and this was a
> common occurrence when customers had their frames coated.
> Instead I would recommend a wet paint application. Someone like Colorworks
> in Eugene can really help you bring to life what you have in mind for your
> bike to look like.
>
> I hope that helps some!
>
> Bre
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame.
>> Worked great.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa •• Babyketten
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
>>> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> /Lisa
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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"So is my powder coated aluminum frame a ticking time bomb?"
Naah. not a bomb, just maybe your strengths aren't what they were. So
fatigue strength is reduced, meaning there might be location (a stress
riser) on your frame where stress level is high enough that yeah a crack
might form and start growing some day. Or maybe not. Just depends on the
material strength, geometry of stress riser, and the stress put into the
frame. The failure won't be catastrophic, unlike say a fork steer
tube, since
you have two stays and a down tube and top tube; one might fail but not
both at once, ( and you'll know when one tube goes, you'll be able to
safely stop. Also Occasionally look over your frame for cracks ( in the
paint) ... Otherwise just ride the bike.
Bike frames are almost always more than strong enough, when they are made
to be stiff enough for practical use . And to state obvious, elastic
modulus doesn't change so frame stiffness is the same (and does not
change..) .

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA wrote:

> So is my powder coated aluminum frame a ticking time bomb? It does
> look pretty though.
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Hugh Givens via OBRA
> wrote:
> > Bre is absolutely right. Powder coating is a really, really bad idea for
> any heat-treated alloy.
> >
> > Being peripherally involved in motorsport I can tell you that the baking
> process of powder coating destroys an alloy automobile wheel's ability to
> withstand impact and stress. Don't do it.
> >
> > HG
> >
> > Bre Rue
> > July 19, 2015 at 3:05 PM
> >
> > Hi Lisa,
> > If you are wanting to paint your aluminum frame and it has been heat
> > treated from the factory (75% of aluminum bikes are), powdercoating will
> > take the heat treatment out of the frame and possibly shorten the life of
> > your frame. I used to both race and consult for Cannondale and this was a
> > common occurrence when customers had their frames coated.
> > Instead I would recommend a wet paint application. Someone like
> Colorworks
> > in Eugene can really help you bring to life what you have in mind for
> your
> > bike to look like.
> >
> > I hope that helps some!
> >
> > Bre
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame.
> >> Worked great.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa ** Babyketten
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello!
> >>> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color
> scheme.
> >>> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local
> recommendations?
> >>>
> >>> Thank you!
> >>> /Lisa
> >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Jason Skelton

2015-07-20

So is my powder coated aluminum frame a ticking time bomb? It does
look pretty though.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Hugh Givens via OBRA
wrote:
> Bre is absolutely right. Powder coating is a really, really bad idea for any heat-treated alloy.
>
> Being peripherally involved in motorsport I can tell you that the baking process of powder coating destroys an alloy automobile wheel's ability to withstand impact and stress. Don't do it.
>
> HG
>
> Bre Rue
> July 19, 2015 at 3:05 PM
>
> Hi Lisa,
> If you are wanting to paint your aluminum frame and it has been heat
> treated from the factory (75% of aluminum bikes are), powdercoating will
> take the heat treatment out of the frame and possibly shorten the life of
> your frame. I used to both race and consult for Cannondale and this was a
> common occurrence when customers had their frames coated.
> Instead I would recommend a wet paint application. Someone like Colorworks
> in Eugene can really help you bring to life what you have in mind for your
> bike to look like.
>
> I hope that helps some!
>
> Bre
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame.
>> Worked great.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa ������ Babyketten
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
>>> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> /Lisa
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Shawn.W.Small

2015-07-20

Also as a note

Class Act was sold pretty recently and isn't painting bikes anymore

_________________________________________________________

*Shawn Small*
Connoisseur of Contraptions

m: 503.515.5218
w: NoYouSettleDown.com
fb: fb.com/shawnzyoo
ig: @shawnzyoo

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Hugh Givens via OBRA
wrote:

> Bre is absolutely right. Powder coating is a really, really bad idea for
> any heat-treated alloy.
>
> Being peripherally involved in motorsport I can tell you that the baking
> process of powder coating destroys an alloy automobile wheel's ability to
> withstand impact and stress. Don't do it.
>
> HG
>
> Bre Rue
> July 19, 2015 at 3:05 PM
>
> Hi Lisa,
> If you are wanting to paint your aluminum frame and it has been heat
> treated from the factory (75% of aluminum bikes are), powdercoating will
> take the heat treatment out of the frame and possibly shorten the life of
> your frame. I used to both race and consult for Cannondale and this was a
> common occurrence when customers had their frames coated.
> Instead I would recommend a wet paint application. Someone like Colorworks
> in Eugene can really help you bring to life what you have in mind for your
> bike to look like.
>
> I hope that helps some!
>
> Bre
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> > I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame.
> > Worked great.
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa •• Babyketten
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello!
> >> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color
> scheme.
> >> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >> /Lisa
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Hugh Givens

2015-07-20

Bre is absolutely right. Powder coating is a really, really bad idea for any heat-treated alloy.

Being peripherally involved in motorsport I can tell you that the baking process of powder coating destroys an alloy automobile wheel's ability to withstand impact and stress. Don't do it.

HG

Bre Rue
July 19, 2015 at 3:05 PM

Hi Lisa,
If you are wanting to paint your aluminum frame and it has been heat
treated from the factory (75% of aluminum bikes are), powdercoating will
take the heat treatment out of the frame and possibly shorten the life of
your frame. I used to both race and consult for Cannondale and this was a
common occurrence when customers had their frames coated.
Instead I would recommend a wet paint application. Someone like Colorworks
in Eugene can really help you bring to life what you have in mind for your
bike to look like.

I hope that helps some!

Bre

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA
wrote:

> I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame.
> Worked great.
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa ������ Babyketten
> wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
>> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>>
>> Thank you!
>> /Lisa
>>


Chip Sloan

2015-07-20

Keith Anderson. Done. He's the best.

> On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Jake via OBRA wrote:
>
> I had class act powder coat a bike for me. It was a sky blue color. When I got it back there were black paint dots all along my top tube. Also the lady was a class act jerk to me. Never. Again.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lisa ������ Babyketten via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> Hello!
>> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
>> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>>
>> Thank you!
>> /Lisa
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


I had class act powder coat a bike for me. It was a sky blue color. When I got it back there were black paint dots all along my top tube. Also the lady was a class act jerk to me. Never. Again.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 19, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lisa ������ Babyketten via OBRA wrote:
>
> Hello!
> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>
> Thank you!
> /Lisa
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Bre Rue

2015-07-19

Hi Lisa,
If you are wanting to paint your aluminum frame and it has been heat
treated from the factory (75% of aluminum bikes are), powdercoating will
take the heat treatment out of the frame and possibly shorten the life of
your frame. I used to both race and consult for Cannondale and this was a
common occurrence when customers had their frames coated.
Instead I would recommend a wet paint application. Someone like Colorworks
in Eugene can really help you bring to life what you have in mind for your
bike to look like.

I hope that helps some!

Bre

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jason Skelton via OBRA
wrote:

> I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame.
> Worked great.
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa •• Babyketten
> wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
>> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>>
>> Thank you!
>> /Lisa
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Jason Skelton

2015-07-19

I used class act paint and powder in Portland for my aluminum frame. Worked
great.

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:07 PM Lisa •• Babyketten wrote:

> Hello!
> I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
> Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?
>
> Thank you!
> /Lisa
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


=?utf-8?Q?Lisa_=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2_Babyketten?=

2015-07-19

Hello!
I'm dabbling with the idea of giving my aluminum frame a new color scheme.
Anyone done a custom paint job on their bike? Any local recommendations?

Thank you!
/Lisa