Mike Murray

At one point OBRA had a reciprocity agreement with USAC where results in
OBRA races were recognized by USAC. USAC walked away from this agreement
unilaterally. I think I can speak for OBRA to say that we would welcome
going back to that agreement or something similar. Although there was some
interest expressed in doing this by a single USAC representative when I was
in CO Springs for the ATRA meeting, nothing has been offered. We are waiting
for the call. I don't think that characterizing this as bickering is very
accurate. It really represents USAC being unwilling to work with OBRA.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Alex Lehnert via
OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 10:22
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA in WA

True enough, people can race where ever they like. If however, you as a
racer want to compete at nationals and not start in the very last row, you
need to have at least 5 USA cycling races under your belt to be in their
"points system". We have some of the best races and racers in the country,
it is a shame that OBRA and USA cycling cannot get this figured out so we
have to travel out of state to race. This weekend some of the states top
Junior racers women racers and men razors were in Washington to "gThis
weekend some of the states top Junior racers women racers and men razors
were in Washington to "get points"
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Robert

A wholesale change to USA Cycling will quadruple the costs to racers and promoters . That will have the chilling effect of pricing out many of our current members.

A better solution is to have USA Cycling recognize our races and results . OBRA I'm sure is more than willing to have our results recognized by USA Cycling, but not at the cost of our race fees going up, or giving up control. There used to, many years ago, be reciprocity between the two organizations. That went away when when management changed at USA Cycling. Perhaps the new management will reinstate that. Perhaps you should contact USA Cycling and tell them that is important you. I did, and I received a nice email in return. I have hope that things will change in the future - I know OBRA is on their radar. But I am certainly not willing to jeopardize what OBRA has built in order to accommodate a few.

On November 16, 2015 11:52:58 AM PST, Alex Lehnert via OBRA wrote:
>I am neither elitist nor wealthy, I have a daughter who loves the sport
>and happens to be quite good. I know several other junior racers as
>well as adult racers in the same boat. Let's keep those well attended,
>sport growing, junior races well attended! If the name of the game is
>growing the sport, and making it approachable, shouldn't we give oregon
>youngsters a fair shot at excelling?
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Alex Lehnert

I am neither elitist nor wealthy, I have a daughter who loves the sport and happens to be quite good. I know several other junior racers as well as adult racers in the same boat. Let's keep those well attended, sport growing, junior races well attended! If the name of the game is growing the sport, and making it approachable, shouldn't we give oregon youngsters a fair shot at excelling?

Michael Rosenberg

Actually, the USA Cycling points systems extends to all disciplines. The worst part is that the increased cost and burden falls mostly on Junior racers. Besides seeding at nationals for cross races, USA cycling results are used to select riders to attend the Olympic Training Center, the Euro Cross Camp, and the spring and summer USA Cycling Junior team trips to Europe for both road and cross. It is expensive and a pain in the neck to get Oregon kids recognized for those opportunities. Obviously, this is a problem for a small portion of the OBRA community, and any solution shouldn't hurt the majority. In fact, in my opinion, a just solution lays at the hands of USA cycling without changing the way OBRA does business. But the problem is real and it is a real bummer for our juniors who are some of the best racers in the country.

Michael Rosenberg

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert via OBRA
To: obra ; obra
Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2015 11:09 am
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA in WA

The points system and starting position is unique to cross racing. It has no bearing on the other disciplines.

As others have pointed out, there is a trade off for not being part of USA Cycling. For most people in this area, they couldn't care less about nationals and points - they are just interested in the considerable discount in race fees.

Those of us that race nationals in other disciplines , while we don't like having to purchase two licenses, realize that that is the cost for competing on a national level. While I sympathize, traveling to other criss races to gain points is your cost to compete at a national level.

Perhaps in the not to distant future USA Cycling and OBRA will come to so reciprocity agreement (again) and this won't be an issue. But until then, you just need to make a few choices about your priorities.

On November 16, 2015 10:22:01 AM PST, Alex Lehnert via OBRA wrote:
True enough, people can race where ever they like. If however, you as a racer want to compete at nationals and not start in the very last row, you need to have at least 5 USA cycling races under your belt to be in their "points system". We have some of the best races and racers in the country, it is a shame that OBRA and USA cycling cannot get this figured out so we have to travel out of state to race. This weekend some of the states top Junior racers women racers and men razors were in Washington to "gThis weekend some of the states top Junior racers women racers and men razors were in Washington to "get points"

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rond..@spiritone.com

The new head of USAC may be the catalyst needed to make that organization
something other than a support system for those racers with potential to win
top races in the US and internationally. As it now is set up, the funds
provided by the vast majority of USAC members does little to support the
regular amateur racers with no real dreams of being Olympians. The OBRA
community supports top and novice racers. Huge difference. I hope the new
leadership at USAC can cut through the layers of bureaucratic foo-foo to
bring reason for all sorts of people to race bikes.......not just super fit
or obsessive people with lots of money.
USAC would better serve the American population by dropping costs for racers
and promoters while providing cats like Clyde, Athena, Women and Men SS, and
beginner cats at pretty much all the events that are not meant for "top
level" (UCI or whatever) competition. Yeah, getting people to "pay" to go
see a bike race may be the ideal financial model, but here in Oregon at
least that is not going to happen in the near future.
Go get those points if you want them for nationals etc. That is just fine.
As it now stands, it is a life choice one makes. Maybe we will come to have
OBRA be recognized by USAC (the smart thing for them to do), while can
still support the fantastic people who come race bikes with no real dreams
of Olympic Gold. We want the wonderful community and benefits coming from
getting together with friends to race bikes. I will believe the changes of
which I speak (and hope for) when I see them. For now, OBRA rules the roost
for this fellow.
ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Allen via OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 10:46 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra in WA

Traveling to WA and missing a couple OR races isn't that big of a sacrifice
for those handful of people going after points for nationals.... Having all
of our races here in OR sanctioned by USAC would be a huge sacrifice for the
majority of us (for starters the $75 lic fee) and discourage racing. There
is a reason why CC and MFG (up in WA) are two of the biggest CX series in
the NW if not the US.
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Robert

The points system and starting position is unique to cross racing. It has no bearing on the other disciplines.

As others have pointed out, there is a trade off for not being part of USA Cycling. For most people in this area, they couldn't care less about nationals and points - they are just interested in the considerable discount in race fees.

Those of us that race nationals in other disciplines , while we don't like having to purchase two licenses, realize that that is the cost for competing on a national level. While I sympathize, traveling to other criss races to gain points is your cost to compete at a national level.

Perhaps in the not to distant future USA Cycling and OBRA will come to so reciprocity agreement (again) and this won't be an issue. But until then, you just need to make a few choices about your priorities.

On November 16, 2015 10:22:01 AM PST, Alex Lehnert via OBRA wrote:
>True enough, people can race where ever they like. If however, you as a
>racer want to compete at nationals and not start in the very last row,
>you need to have at least 5 USA cycling races under your belt to be in
>their "points system". We have some of the best races and racers in
>the country, it is a shame that OBRA and USA cycling cannot get this
>figured out so we have to travel out of state to race. This weekend
>some of the states top Junior racers women racers and men razors were
>in Washington to "gThis weekend some of the states top Junior racers
>women racers and men razors were in Washington to "get points"
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Alex Lehnert

I couldn't agree more that's a crusade series is outstanding (thank you Brian Ross). OBRA certainly has done some things right without question. From what I understand, Washington and USA cycling work together, that's one of the reasons so many people go up there. Last week and most of the bend endurance academy, many of the PDX Devo team, and a bunch of others from Oregon we're up racing. They weren't pushing others hard at PIR. It's not just a few people, nor is it a couple of races. This season MANY people flew to Colorado and California to chase points. Certainly some sort of cooperation could/should be offered to those who wish to have a go at racing at a higher level?

Allen

Traveling to WA and missing a couple OR races isn't that big of a sacrifice for those handful of people going after points for nationals.... Having all of our races here in OR sanctioned by USAC would be a huge sacrifice for the majority of us (for starters the $75 lic fee) and discourage racing. There is a reason why CC and MFG (up in WA) are two of the biggest CX series in the NW if not the US.

craig austin

Only us mortals are free to race where we like. You don't have a lot of
choice if you want points on the national level. Fortunately there seem to
be some changes afoot that *might *mean a little more cooperation between
USAC and some of the other racing organizations, but right now it's pretty
tough for a racer wanting to go to nationals or worlds if they're also
wanting to race in Oregon.

Craig

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Robert via OBRA
wrote:

> How do you mean exactly? Everyone is free to race where they like.....
>
> On November 16, 2015 9:53:11 AM PST, Alex lehnert via OBRA <
> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>
>> Well I'm sure most would have rather been racing crusade the past few weekends (ourselves included). With the lame OBRA-USA cycling bickering some of the best oregon racers have no choice but to race out of state. It's a shame and an added stress in the view of many who are stuck in the middle of the silliness.
>> ------------------------------
>>
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Alex Lehnert

True enough, people can race where ever they like. If however, you as a racer want to compete at nationals and not start in the very last row, you need to have at least 5 USA cycling races under your belt to be in their "points system". We have some of the best races and racers in the country, it is a shame that OBRA and USA cycling cannot get this figured out so we have to travel out of state to race. This weekend some of the states top Junior racers women racers and men razors were in Washington to "gThis weekend some of the states top Junior racers women racers and men razors were in Washington to "get points"

Robert

How do you mean exactly? Everyone is free to race where they like.....

On November 16, 2015 9:53:11 AM PST, Alex lehnert via OBRA wrote:
>Well I'm sure most would have rather been racing crusade the past few
>weekends (ourselves included). With the lame OBRA-USA cycling bickering
>some of the best oregon racers have no choice but to race out of state.
>It's a shame and an added stress in the view of many who are stuck in
>the middle of the silliness.
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>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Alex lehnert

Well I'm sure most would have rather been racing crusade the past few weekends (ourselves included). With the lame OBRA-USA cycling bickering some of the best oregon racers have no choice but to race out of state. It's a shame and an added stress in the view of many who are stuck in the middle of the silliness.

Matt Martel

are you implying this is good or bad? Just curious.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Alex Lehnert via OBRA
wrote:

> Amazing how many Oregon racers spent this weekend racing in Washington!
> last weekend too....
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Alex Lehnert

Amazing how many Oregon racers spent this weekend racing in Washington! last weekend too....