Jon Myers

Keep in mind that Washington has nearly twice the population of Oregon and the Seattle metro area has about 50% more people than the Portland metro area. I used to travel to the Seattle area to race a lot when I was much younger and somewhat competitive but that was around 20 years ago. From a mountain bike perspective Oregon has had at least as competitive landscape from a Pro/Elite standpoint for the entire 25 years I���ve been racing. Most of those years Oregon was much more competitive at the top levels. These days British Columbia appears to have the most competitive MTB fields but very few Canadians travel south.
-Jon

Mike Murray

Motor sport transponders are powered by the vehicle battery. They are larger and heavier than the ones used in non motor sports. We could use motorsports transponders but it would be like replacing one of your water bottles with a battery. The cycling transponders have a limited battery life, 2-3 years. We are looking at a subscription service. There would be an annual fee that would be added into the membership fee.

Mike Murray
Sent from mobile device

> On Apr 13, 2016, at 19:53, dan@bicyclerepairman.us wrote:
>
> When we race motorcycles, we have a transponder that is purchased and owned by the competitor. It has a code that is associated with that person for as long as they own it. It's a one time purchase and when someone retires, there is always someone else waiting to buy it. If a competitor does not have a transponder, it's like they are not there. Pretty cut and dry. The cost of transponders is not what limits participation.
>
>> On 2016-04-13 19:10, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>> Like Candi said, we provided frame numbers for several years. Most riders
>> did not bring them and officials would not require them. Although as a
>> camera operator I would love to see frame numbers used, I think that if we
>> were serious about getting them used we would have to disqualify people that
>> don't use them. This would have a negative effect on participation that
>> outweighs the benefit of frame numbers.
>> Showing average speed for the winners or, for that matter, for every single
>> competitor would be pretty trivial if the FinishLynx camera software was
>> used more fully. Frankly no one has previously expressed an interest in this
>> and it takes some more effort on the part of the officials who are already
>> over worked and under compensated.
>> Time splits is the same as above about average speed of the winner.
>> Generally these are only tabulated for stage races.
>> On a somewhat related issue, I am looking at RFID systems which would
>> require people to have the sending unit attached to their bikes. I expect
>> that there will need to be some penalty for failure to use these if we roll
>> out this program. One advantage of an RFID system would be that it could
>> tabulate and upload lap times for all competitors automatically to a web
>> page. There will be a cost associated with that.
>> I think we actually have more than 2 LED lap boards as well as several
>> display clocks that have a lap mode. Any race organizer is welcome to use
>> them. FWIW, I was using a LED lap board at the velodrome but the riders
>> complained that they liked the regular flip lap board because the digits on
>> the LED display blinked and were difficult to see.
>> Mike Murray
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Candi Murray.
>> via OBRA
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 16:29
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Questions:OBRA vs WSBA
>> We provided frame numbers for a couple of years. Non compliance was huge.
>> We could show splits if the race was using the Finish Lynx. I always posted
>> times when I scored ccx. Many officials/camera operators just don't know
>> how.
>> We have 2 LED lap boards, not sure what people aren't using them.
>> Candi
>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Nathan Gibson via OBRA
>>> wrote:
>>> While the Internet is busy arguing about disc brakes, I remembered a
>>> couple questions I had a couple weeks ago while racing in WA in regards to
>>> how we do things a bit differently here in OBRA:
>>> Why don't we use frame numbers?
>>> Why don't the results show the average speed for the winner?
>>> Why don't the results show time splits?
>>> Why don't we have a really cool LED lap board?( yeah it's probably $$$,
>>> but still)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Nathan Gibson

In response to competitiveness: I would say that they can be Significantly more competitive in WSBA, and you often get to race against pros, which is always fun. Also the Canadians usually come down for big races and holy crap are they fast. Of course Rathe and some woman professionals join us here on occasion too. Yes, the level of racing definitely feels more competitive.

We had 5 pros in a small crit last summer in Puyallup and something like $5000 in prize money, nothing like that exists in PDX anymore, And 90 minutes instead of 60! And no, I don't promote any races so it's difficult to complain too much.

Participation overall in OBRA might be higher, but the fields in road racing seem to be much larger in WSBA. Check USA cycling results, they often reach the field size limit and I seem to recall two separate 4/5 races back in the day because there were so many racers. This leads to a longer discussion about the decline in road racing in general.

A separate issue from my original comments about scoring systems but that's my two cents.

d..@bicyclerepairman.us

When we race motorcycles, we have a transponder that is purchased and
owned by the competitor. It has a code that is associated with that
person for as long as they own it. It's a one time purchase and when
someone retires, there is always someone else waiting to buy it. If a
competitor does not have a transponder, it's like they are not there.
Pretty cut and dry. The cost of transponders is not what limits
participation.

On 2016-04-13 19:10, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
> Like Candi said, we provided frame numbers for several years. Most
> riders
> did not bring them and officials would not require them. Although as a
> camera operator I would love to see frame numbers used, I think that if
> we
> were serious about getting them used we would have to disqualify people
> that
> don't use them. This would have a negative effect on participation that
> outweighs the benefit of frame numbers.
>
> Showing average speed for the winners or, for that matter, for every
> single
> competitor would be pretty trivial if the FinishLynx camera software
> was
> used more fully. Frankly no one has previously expressed an interest in
> this
> and it takes some more effort on the part of the officials who are
> already
> over worked and under compensated.
>
> Time splits is the same as above about average speed of the winner.
> Generally these are only tabulated for stage races.
>
> On a somewhat related issue, I am looking at RFID systems which would
> require people to have the sending unit attached to their bikes. I
> expect
> that there will need to be some penalty for failure to use these if we
> roll
> out this program. One advantage of an RFID system would be that it
> could
> tabulate and upload lap times for all competitors automatically to a
> web
> page. There will be a cost associated with that.
>
> I think we actually have more than 2 LED lap boards as well as several
> display clocks that have a lap mode. Any race organizer is welcome to
> use
> them. FWIW, I was using a LED lap board at the velodrome but the riders
> complained that they liked the regular flip lap board because the
> digits on
> the LED display blinked and were difficult to see.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Candi
> Murray.
> via OBRA
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 16:29
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Questions:OBRA vs WSBA
>
> We provided frame numbers for a couple of years. Non compliance was
> huge.
> We could show splits if the race was using the Finish Lynx. I always
> posted
> times when I scored ccx. Many officials/camera operators just don't
> know
> how.
> We have 2 LED lap boards, not sure what people aren't using them.
> Candi
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Nathan Gibson via OBRA
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> While the Internet is busy arguing about disc brakes, I remembered a
>> couple questions I had a couple weeks ago while racing in WA in
>> regards to
>> how we do things a bit differently here in OBRA:
>>
>> Why don't we use frame numbers?
>>
>> Why don't the results show the average speed for the winner?
>>
>> Why don't the results show time splits?
>>
>> Why don't we have a really cool LED lap board?( yeah it's probably
>> $$$,
>> but still)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

My Computer

WA fields more competitive than OR, really?

N
On Apr 13, 2016 5:17 PM, "Nate Gibson via OBRA" wrote:

> Cost is a separate issue, one that is more reliant on USAC in general.
> USAC has several advantages and disadvantages but their membership fees are
> higher as are race entry fees in general. I often pay $5 to $10 more to
> race in WSBA but the fields are significantly larger and the competition
> better. Different promoters put on races differently, some are excellent,
> others not so much, but that's a completely separate issue as to my
> questions about scoring.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

I have to point out that the number of racers, races and racer/days in
Oregon is considerably larger than in Washington despite Washington's larger
population. There is a relationship between this and the size and
competitiveness of fields.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Nate Gibson via
OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 16:52
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Questions:OBRA vs WSBA

Cost is a separate issue, one that is more reliant on USAC in general. USAC
has several advantages and disadvantages but their membership fees are
higher as are race entry fees in general. I often pay $5 to $10 more to race
in WSBA but the fields are significantly larger and the competition better.
Different promoters put on races differently, some are excellent, others not
so much, but that's a completely separate issue as to my questions about
scoring.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

Like Candi said, we provided frame numbers for several years. Most riders
did not bring them and officials would not require them. Although as a
camera operator I would love to see frame numbers used, I think that if we
were serious about getting them used we would have to disqualify people that
don't use them. This would have a negative effect on participation that
outweighs the benefit of frame numbers.

Showing average speed for the winners or, for that matter, for every single
competitor would be pretty trivial if the FinishLynx camera software was
used more fully. Frankly no one has previously expressed an interest in this
and it takes some more effort on the part of the officials who are already
over worked and under compensated.

Time splits is the same as above about average speed of the winner.
Generally these are only tabulated for stage races.

On a somewhat related issue, I am looking at RFID systems which would
require people to have the sending unit attached to their bikes. I expect
that there will need to be some penalty for failure to use these if we roll
out this program. One advantage of an RFID system would be that it could
tabulate and upload lap times for all competitors automatically to a web
page. There will be a cost associated with that.

I think we actually have more than 2 LED lap boards as well as several
display clocks that have a lap mode. Any race organizer is welcome to use
them. FWIW, I was using a LED lap board at the velodrome but the riders
complained that they liked the regular flip lap board because the digits on
the LED display blinked and were difficult to see.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Candi Murray.
via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 16:29
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Questions:OBRA vs WSBA

We provided frame numbers for a couple of years. Non compliance was huge.
We could show splits if the race was using the Finish Lynx. I always posted
times when I scored ccx. Many officials/camera operators just don't know
how.
We have 2 LED lap boards, not sure what people aren't using them.
Candi

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 13, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Nathan Gibson via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> While the Internet is busy arguing about disc brakes, I remembered a
> couple questions I had a couple weeks ago while racing in WA in regards to
> how we do things a bit differently here in OBRA:
>
> Why don't we use frame numbers?
>
> Why don't the results show the average speed for the winner?
>
> Why don't the results show time splits?
>
> Why don't we have a really cool LED lap board?( yeah it's probably $$$,
> but still)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Nate Gibson

Cost is a separate issue, one that is more reliant on USAC in general. USAC has several advantages and disadvantages but their membership fees are higher as are race entry fees in general. I often pay $5 to $10 more to race in WSBA but the fields are significantly larger and the competition better. Different promoters put on races differently, some are excellent, others not so much, but that's a completely separate issue as to my questions about scoring.

Candi Murray.

We provided frame numbers for a couple of years. Non compliance was huge.
We could show splits if the race was using the Finish Lynx. I always posted times when I scored ccx. Many officials/camera operators just don't know how.
We have 2 LED lap boards, not sure what people aren't using them.
Candi

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 13, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Nathan Gibson via OBRA wrote:
>
> While the Internet is busy arguing about disc brakes, I remembered a couple questions I had a couple weeks ago while racing in WA in regards to how we do things a bit differently here in OBRA:
>
> Why don't we use frame numbers?
>
> Why don't the results show the average speed for the winner?
>
> Why don't the results show time splits?
>
> Why don't we have a really cool LED lap board?( yeah it's probably $$$, but still)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Michael Richardson

How much did it cost you to enter this WSBA race?

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 13, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Nathan Gibson via OBRA wrote:
>
> While the Internet is busy arguing about disc brakes, I remembered a couple questions I had a couple weeks ago while racing in WA in regards to how we do things a bit differently here in OBRA:
>
> Why don't we use frame numbers?
>
> Why don't the results show the average speed for the winner?
>
> Why don't the results show time splits?
>
> Why don't we have a really cool LED lap board?( yeah it's probably $$$, but still)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Nathan Gibson

While the Internet is busy arguing about disc brakes, I remembered a couple questions I had a couple weeks ago while racing in WA in regards to how we do things a bit differently here in OBRA:

Why don't we use frame numbers?

Why don't the results show the average speed for the winner?

Why don't the results show time splits?

Why don't we have a really cool LED lap board?( yeah it's probably $$$, but still)