I think improving the process is always a good idea. I am not at all offended. But we will take the conversation off line. Thank you all.
Candi
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 2:48 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] To those who want to criticize the fine work our OBRA officials do
This is really getting ridiculous about complaining on how they get the results up. Its only local racing, get past it and quit filling up peoples email. Over 3/4 of my emails are about race results and nothing about how good it was or thanking the volunteers for there time so you could race. Its been 3 days get over it .
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
-----Original Message-----
From: obra@list.obra.org
To: jasonskelton@gmail.com
Cc: jeremydrussell@gmail.com,obra@list.obra.org
Sent: 2017-03-22 12:41:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] To those who want to criticize the fine work our OBRA officials do
Part of the problem is the use of USAC. They don't put on events. To get the data you need to speak with individual race organizers. A big part, is like Stephen says, hiring an office independent timing company.
As an aside I offered splits on all the ccx races I judged and got very few takers.
Candi
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 22, 2017, at 12:11 PM, Jason S. via OBRA wrote:
Suggestions to Jeremy Russell. You can find the answers you seek yourself, but it involves some work. First, contact USAC and ask what they use and get information about cost. Next, talk to promoters that use that system and figure out how much more entry fees need to be. Third, report findings to OBRA persons directly; and maybe join the OBRA board to inform the discussion. OBRA does a lot of amazing stuff for how little we pay in membership fees. Many of us do not want race costs to increase, especially when races require long drives on top of race fees.
Finally, if you want the data you seek, pay a buddy to keep splits for you or whatever else data you need. Or program your watch to do it. But don't use the collective "we" as in have "we researched" the issue when you really mean other people doing the work for you.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Jeremy Russell via OBRA wrote:
I've brought this up to individuals within OBRA before however I thought it was worth having a discussion on OBRA chat. I thought maybe it would move the needle more. I do know too that this chat can be the start of a long rabbit hole and the USAC discussion in entirety doesn't below here BUT they seem inter-related.
USAC must subsides the cost of the 3rd party result companies otherwise everyone wouldn't be using them. And, if the cost was too expensive, organizers/promoters wouldn't be using them...which isn't the case. I think it's a weak case to always blame the promoters or racers for everything.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
Jeremy, the USAC discussion is a lot bigger discussion than race results formats. It is actually something we talked about for a while at our board work session the other weekend. I am happy to discuss this in more detail with you (or any OBRA members) offline if you want to meet up.
The results issue is completely separate from USAC. A promoter can hire an outside timing company to do results and work with the officials at an OBRA race. But OBRA provides results services and equipment as part of its officials "package". As you, and Candi, pointed out, the package does well, but could be better. To make it better, OBRA would either need to hire someone to do the programming and development to make new or better software, purchase a pre-built software package or find someone in our community that can do it and would like to volunteer their time.
This feedback is important, thanks for providing it. But I might suggest reaching out to Kenji, Candi or a board member before blasting our officials on the OBRA chat. There is no hidden info in OBRA, you just might need to do a little bit of asking around to find it.
On Mar 22, 2017 10:59 AM, "Jeremy Russell" wrote:
Thanks for the insight Steven, seriously. The transparency of why we are OBRA (and not included in USAC) and why we do certain things is sometimes a mystery to me most of the time.
Have we explored what the actual extra cost would be? Would there be a way to pair with USAC to spread out the cost among parties? I know that's a bigger discussion (ie integrating with USAC completely) but it might be the root of the problem. I love the community I belong too however I'm always lost for good reasons on why we have to be isolated from big brother USAC.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
At most USCA races, they hire an outside company to do the timing (GC Racing LLC in Washington). These outside companies are separate from the officiating staff, and cost the promoters additional money.
These companies, since they are for profit, have invested the time and money to make splits an easy add to the results, probably at the expense of every racer attending. The core technology they use is the same that OBRA has, but perhaps a bit more refined. As Candi has said, if someone from the community wants to spend the time to make our time system better, I am sure everyone would appreciate it. But, I don't see this being a priority for OBRA at the expense of its membership right now.
Jeremy, I agree it is a great idea, but probably not a priority for most races, or something they would be willing to pay an extra $5 in entry fee for at this point. But if someone (someone like you Jeremy) would be willing to volunteer their time to build the system for our officials to use, then we could have these amazing results without any extra cost.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Jeremy Russell via OBRA wrote:
My point is that IF the whole country is able to post result times (usually within a few hrs after finish), then why can't we? OBRA officially do a great job as ALL officials try and do across the country but that's not the issue.
The issue is - why are USAC officials able to tabulate results quicker and with times? It can't be because they try harder. Do they have better result technology? Are they investing more in their officials? There's no way that they have better officials that are okay volunteering their free time.
The only thing I can think of is that we're using an antiquated way that is time consuming as it's all manually entered. Am I wrong?
JerBear
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