Matt Martel
This is OBRA chat. *EVERY* topic (i.e. damn horse) gets beaten to death.
That is what we do so well! :)
Matt Martel
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:55 PM, joe cipale via OBRA
wrote:
> Why the hell do I feel like I am Bill Murray in Groundhog Day? Didn't this
> damn horse get beaten to death already?
>
> On Nov 15, 2017 1:50 PM, "Ron Strasser via OBRA"
> wrote:
>
>> Jeff,
>> You are so wrong about entitlement by bike riders. It is the people who
>> want to keep Forest Park as their own little “hiker only heaven” who are
>> entitled. This is about equity for people who “cannot afford” to drive
>> long distances to ride off road. This is about riding in places where it
>> is quiet and you are not inches from massive moving vehicles. If you offer
>> kids and adults a chance to get out into nature on foot or bike, you are
>> doing nature a favor because you are creating people who will not just be
>> more physically and mentally healthy...you are creating stewards of the
>> places they use...in this case Forest Park. It also cuts down on the
>> carbon fuels used to recreate. Creating more access in Forest Park can be
>> done in a manner which respects the experiences of hikers and bikers and in
>> the end will help Forest Park become a more healthy place as more people
>> are invested in it’s care. That Park does not belong to just hikers or the
>> next door neighbors. I also add (as a long time member of The Nature
>> Conservancy, World Wildlife Fund, National Wildlife Federation and 1000
>> Friends of Oregon) that Forest Park is NOT a WILDERNESS!
>> It is surrounded by more than a million humans and it is the time to
>> create well thought access for those people in a manner that helps sustain
>> the overall health of the park and and “all” of those who want to use it.
>> Maybe if compromise on use cannot be made, a huge bubble with atmospheric
>> anti-pollution filtration and and infrastructure to prevent pollution from
>> the roadways and mansions on the parks boundary's can be installed. Then
>> we could add electronic monitoring and controlled access to the
>> park......Hey are we starting to sound like a WALL? Oh. Lets get the
>> non-hikers to pay for it as well.
>> But seriously...
>> This park needs to be shared with the Portland metro population...not
>> just a small select few. This is a hard ass environmentalist talking here.
>> ron strasser
>>
>> *From:* via OBRA
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 15, 2017 12:21 PM
>> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Forest park anti-mountain biking column in
>> theOregonian
>>
>> MTB in Stubb Stewart:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhcscwtoz2U
>>
>> I agree with Mike Lindberg's assessment overall. Can't speak to
>> collisions but have seen/had close calls on Leif. I enjoy trail running and
>> mtb, and I would be concerned about expanded mtb activity in Forest Park
>> impacting the solitude. Stubb Stewart is a great example. From an mtb
>> perspective it's fantastic to have additional trails, particularly closer
>> in to pdx, but there's no question that the complexion of Stubb is
>> different with mtb and foot traffic co-mingled. Overall ave mtb speed up &
>> down might be close to walking speed, but downhill speeds are well above
>> that in general (see above video as an example). And at Stubb, the downhill
>> mtb trails, jumps, flow trails, etc., generate more noise in the forest
>> (landings, chain slap, rider noise) and require more caution at trail
>> crossings - even for fellow mtb riders.
>>
>> The terrain of FP and location of access roads could naturally lead to
>> shuttle riding of downhills. Greater congestion at parking locations and at
>> trail junctions. Increased noise.
>>
>> Could it work in some capacity - sure. But I don't think there's any
>> question that it would be a different experience for those on foot. Could
>> we have mtb trails in the Oregon Japanese Gardens (hyperbole, I know).
>> Probably, but it would be a different experience. Does that make those that
>> seek a more meditative visit to the Gardens selfish? Those that have hiked
>> or run significant portions of FP know that it is an amazing gift to have
>> such isolation and solitude right in the heart of pdx. I don't perceive
>> that it is selfish to want to preserve that.
>>
>> I've read a number of posts suggesting that it's the city's
>> responsibility to provide mtb trails so that riders don't have to drive
>> long distances to ride trails. That seems a bit entitled. Bike commuters
>> and infrastructure - sure. But, because people buy recreational equipment
>> they deserve to have supporting infrastructure? I understand, and share,
>> the desire but it seems like a privilege not a right.
>>
>> I appreciate the zeal of mtb trail advocates and at the same time I think
>> it's important to understand points of contention from people like Mr.
>> Lindberg, and to be honest with ourselves where there is some validity
>> their objections. Like religion and politics, there's hyperbole on both
>> sides, but it's helpful to try and understand oppositions viewpoint rather
>> than reject it out of hand.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Forest park anti-mountain biking column in the
>> Oregonian
>> From: Manville via OBRA
>> Date: Wed, November 15, 2017 10:47 am
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>
>> Please respond to your elected officials if you can. Mountain biking is a
>> passive activity ( it has the same effect on trails as hiking) and for the
>> most part, we go barely faster than running speed. The perception of
>> mountain biking is so skewed in this City. -- Juston Manville
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