Piece of Cake Cat 4/5 Men

Brad Petersen

2018-04-02

Sounds like a large factor was space on the road for 60+ riders. Cat 3 had 45 starters, doubt adding all the 4's to that and having another 60-70+ field would be any better. Sounds like it's time to accept a higher cost for a higher quality product. Have to admit I'm glad I skipped this weekends race. Ultimately we should appreciate promotors offering a quality, safe race and accept the costs associated with it... honestly, how many really would have not raced if it had cost $50 over $35? That's my worthless opinion as a potential "customer" that's a bit hesitant after situations like this.


John Wilger

2018-04-01

Thanks Jon, both for volunteering and your thoughts. I would note that I am
not asking to add an additional field,; I’m asking to have the fields be 5
and 3/4 instead of 4/5 and 3.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:04 AM jon.ragsdale
wrote:

> Thoughts from the officials car........
> 1st adding another field causes an increase in price for the promoters.
> They need another official. This could also make the day little longer
> which would mean there would be more in permit fees most likely
> I saw what caused the first wreck, but I couldn't tell you if it was
> caused by a Cat 4 or 5.
> I had I think 21 infractions written down. Only a couple of those were
> Cat 5 riders.
> The biggest issues I had were the full field taking up the full road when
> there wasn't a defined centerline. If some of the group were taking up
> 55% of the road, I could see that since it could be hard to gauge where
> center is. But riders were dirt to dirt. Also, the v racers had full
> access to both lanes after 200 meters to go. A large portion of riders
> jumped around 250 meters (before the uphill started)
>
> I don't have specifics of who did what since I turned in my notes, but if
> anybody has any questions, feel free to contact me off list
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: John Wilger via OBRA
> Date: 4/1/18 8:01 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Brad Davidson , dsaltzberg@zone5promotions.com
> Cc: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Piece of Cake Cat 4/5 Men
>
> Yeah, I had similar thoughts about the 5s needing their own field for road
> races. Plus it would have made the field smaller for the 5s, which I
> understand a promoter not loving, but when your talking about new
> racers(especially early in the season) that makes a big difference for
> safety; less fighting for the same patch of road, and easier for officials
> to keep an eye on everyone.
>
> The promotor could easily make a change for the rest of this series to
> have the fields be senior 5s and senior 3/4s. It wouldn't even affect any
> series standings, since the 4/5 race was entirely nullified. The 4s would
> just only be able to earn points in the final two races of the series.
>
> So I wonder: any chance that we could see a change in the fields for the
> next couple of races in this series? If not, I think I’m going to pass on
> them. (Which makes me really sad; I think these are otherwise great races
> in general, and I really, really want to support them.)
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 4:48 PM Brad Davidson via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> Or just split the open fields at 3/4 and 5 like many other events do.
>> This is the second year in a row that we've had:
>>
>> * A crash in the final sprint
>> * Early race crashes due to wheel contact when the pack yo-yos on a climb
>> or corner
>> * Riders failing to respect the centerline rule
>> * Riders forced off the right side of the road
>>
>> This is all novice-level stuff. I get it, winter is long and we're all
>> excited to drop some watts in the sun again... but it seems like some folks
>> might need a little more time on a fast-paced group ride, or out on the
>> tarmac at PIR, before they're ready to handle their bike at full speed.
>>
>> Maybe there are other solutions than changing the split, but IMO there's
>> a huge difference between the bottom of 5 and the top of 4. Putting them
>> together this early in the season is just asking for trouble.
>>
>> I love Piece of Cake, but I won't race this event in this field again.
>> I'll take a self-upgrade to 3 and gladly spend the rest of the year sucking
>> wind at the back of the pack if that's what it takes to get me out.
>>
>> -Brad
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 15:44 John Wilger wrote:
>>
>>> It was literally the most dangerous race I’ve ever been in. And the
>>> whole field (I hear) is being nullified. And rightly so.
>>>
>>> Literally begging the promoter to do a senior 3/4 field. Or do Masters
>>> as 35+. Please? Some of us need to be able to go to work next week. :-D
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 3:32 PM Brandon Davidson via OBRA <
>>> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing
>>>> stuff goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw
>>>>
>>>> -Brad
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>> John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 <(971)%20678-0999> |
>>> http://johnwilger.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> --
John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 | http://johnwilger.com


John Wilger

2018-04-01

Indeed. What happened yesterday in no way makes me think poorly of the
promoter. It was a great course and well-supported.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 12:31 PM Bryant Howard, O2 Endurance via OBRA <
obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

>
> I'd like to express my gratitude for all the efforts put forth by Zone5,
> OBRA and Volunteers to make yesterday a safe and affordable race. The
> value and level of professional support offered is without parallel in the
> sporting community.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
> Bryant
>
> ---
> O2 Endurance, Performance Coaching
> Portland, OR (USA) & Dubai (UAE)
> bryant@o2endurance.com
>
> Facebook: o2endurance
> Twitter: @o2endurance
> Instagram: o2endurance
> Web: www.o2endurance.com
> Phone: +1 503 318 7930 (USA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
--
John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 | http://johnwilger.com


Jim Middaugh

2018-04-01

Agreed. Thanks.

> On Apr 1, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Bryant Howard, O2 Endurance via OBRA wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to express my gratitude for all the efforts put forth by Zone5,
> OBRA and Volunteers to make yesterday a safe and affordable race. The
> value and level of professional support offered is without parallel in the
> sporting community.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
> Bryant
>
> ---
> O2 Endurance, Performance Coaching
> Portland, OR (USA) & Dubai (UAE)
> bryant@o2endurance.com
>
> Facebook: o2endurance
> Twitter: @o2endurance
> Instagram: o2endurance
> Web: www.o2endurance.com
> Phone: +1 503 318 7930 (USA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Bryant Howard, O2 Endurance

2018-04-01

I'd like to express my gratitude for all the efforts put forth by Zone5,
OBRA and Volunteers to make yesterday a safe and affordable race. The
value and level of professional support offered is without parallel in the
sporting community.

Thank you!

Bryant

---
O2 Endurance, Performance Coaching
Portland, OR (USA) & Dubai (UAE)
bryant@o2endurance.com

Facebook: o2endurance
Twitter: @o2endurance
Instagram: o2endurance
Web: www.o2endurance.com
Phone: +1 503 318 7930 (USA)


christopherwag..@gmail.com

2018-04-01

You know what really helps new racers hone their skills? Crits. With the extremely small criterium "season" in the Portland area they have no way to gain the skills. PIR is not anywhere near the same as even a four corner crit. More crits equal more fun. It's science.

> On Apr 1, 2018, at 9:03 AM, jon.ragsdale via OBRA wrote:
>
> Thoughts from the officials car........
> 1st adding another field causes an increase in price for the promoters. They need another official. This could also make the day little longer which would mean there would be more in permit fees most likely
> I saw what caused the first wreck, but I couldn't tell you if it was caused by a Cat 4 or 5.
> I had I think 21 infractions written down. Only a couple of those were Cat 5 riders.
> The biggest issues I had were the full field taking up the full road when there wasn't a defined centerline. If some of the group were taking up 55% of the road, I could see that since it could be hard to gauge where center is. But riders were dirt to dirt. Also, the v racers had full access to both lanes after 200 meters to go. A large portion of riders jumped around 250 meters (before the uphill started)
>
> I don't have specifics of who did what since I turned in my notes, but if anybody has any questions, feel free to contact me off list
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: John Wilger via OBRA
> Date: 4/1/18 8:01 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Brad Davidson , dsaltzberg@zone5promotions.com
> Cc: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Piece of Cake Cat 4/5 Men
>
> Yeah, I had similar thoughts about the 5s needing their own field for road races. Plus it would have made the field smaller for the 5s, which I understand a promoter not loving, but when your talking about new racers(especially early in the season) that makes a big difference for safety; less fighting for the same patch of road, and easier for officials to keep an eye on everyone.
>
> The promotor could easily make a change for the rest of this series to have the fields be senior 5s and senior 3/4s. It wouldn't even affect any series standings, since the 4/5 race was entirely nullified. The 4s would just only be able to earn points in the final two races of the series.
>
> So I wonder: any chance that we could see a change in the fields for the next couple of races in this series? If not, I think I’m going to pass on them. (Which makes me really sad; I think these are otherwise great races in general, and I really, really want to support them.)
>
>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 4:48 PM Brad Davidson via OBRA wrote:
>> Or just split the open fields at 3/4 and 5 like many other events do. This is the second year in a row that we've had:
>>
>> * A crash in the final sprint
>> * Early race crashes due to wheel contact when the pack yo-yos on a climb or corner
>> * Riders failing to respect the centerline rule
>> * Riders forced off the right side of the road
>>
>> This is all novice-level stuff. I get it, winter is long and we're all excited to drop some watts in the sun again... but it seems like some folks might need a little more time on a fast-paced group ride, or out on the tarmac at PIR, before they're ready to handle their bike at full speed.
>>
>> Maybe there are other solutions than changing the split, but IMO there's a huge difference between the bottom of 5 and the top of 4. Putting them together this early in the season is just asking for trouble.
>>
>> I love Piece of Cake, but I won't race this event in this field again. I'll take a self-upgrade to 3 and gladly spend the rest of the year sucking wind at the back of the pack if that's what it takes to get me out.
>>
>> -Brad
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 15:44 John Wilger wrote:
>>> It was literally the most dangerous race I’ve ever been in. And the whole field (I hear) is being nullified. And rightly so.
>>>
>>> Literally begging the promoter to do a senior 3/4 field. Or do Masters as 35+. Please? Some of us need to be able to go to work next week. :-D
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 3:32 PM Brandon Davidson via OBRA wrote:
>>>> Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing stuff goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw
>>>>
>>>> -Brad
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 | http://johnwilger.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


jon.ragsdale

2018-04-01

Thoughts from the officials car........ 1st adding another field causes an increase in price for the promoters. They need another official. This could also make the day little longer which would mean there would be more in permit fees most likelyI saw what caused the first wreck,  but I couldn't tell you if it was caused by a Cat 4 or 5.I had I think 21 infractions written down.   Only a couple of those were Cat 5 riders. The biggest issues I had were the full field taking up the full road when there wasn't a defined centerline.   If some of the group were taking up 55% of the road,  I could see that since it could be hard to gauge where center is.   But riders were dirt to dirt.   Also,  the v racers had full access to both lanes after 200 meters to go.   A large portion of riders jumped around 250 meters (before the uphill started)
I don't have specifics of who did what since I turned in my notes,  but if anybody has any questions, feel free to contact me off list 
Jon 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------From: John Wilger via OBRA Date: 4/1/18 8:01 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Brad Davidson , dsaltzberg@zone5promotions.com Cc: Obra Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Piece of Cake Cat 4/5 Men
Yeah, I had similar thoughts about the 5s needing their own field for road races. Plus it would have made the field smaller for the 5s, which I understand a promoter not loving, but when your talking about new racers(especially early in the season) that makes a big difference for safety; less fighting for the same patch of road, and easier for officials to keep an eye on everyone.
The promotor could easily make a change for the rest of this series to have the fields be senior 5s and senior 3/4s. It wouldn't even affect any series standings, since the 4/5 race was entirely nullified. The 4s would just only be able to earn points in the final two races of the series.
So I wonder: any chance that we could see a change in the fields for the next couple of races in this series? If not, I think I’m going to pass on them. (Which makes me really sad; I think these are otherwise great races in general, and I really, really want to support them.)
On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 4:48 PM Brad Davidson via OBRA wrote:
Or just split the open fields at 3/4 and 5 like many other events do. This is the second year in a row that we've had:
* A crash in the final sprint
* Early race crashes due to wheel contact when the pack yo-yos on a climb or corner* Riders failing to respect the centerline rule* Riders forced off the right side of the road
This is all novice-level stuff. I get it, winter is long and we're all excited to drop some watts in the sun again... but it seems like some folks might need a little more time on a fast-paced group ride, or out on the tarmac at PIR, before they're ready to handle their bike at full speed. 
Maybe there are other solutions than changing the split, but IMO there's a huge difference between the bottom of 5 and the top of 4. Putting them together this early in the season is just asking for trouble.
I love Piece of Cake, but I won't race this event in this field again. I'll take a self-upgrade to 3 and gladly spend the rest of the year sucking wind at the back of the pack if that's what it takes to get me out.
-Brad

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 15:44 John Wilger wrote:
It was literally the most dangerous race I’ve ever been in. And the whole field (I hear) is being nullified. And rightly so.
Literally begging the promoter to do a senior 3/4 field. Or do Masters as 35+. Please? Some of us need to be able to go to work next week. :-D
On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 3:32 PM Brandon Davidson via OBRA wrote:
Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing stuff goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:

https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw

-Brad

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John Wilger

2018-04-01

Yeah, I had similar thoughts about the 5s needing their own field for road
races. Plus it would have made the field smaller for the 5s, which I
understand a promoter not loving, but when your talking about new
racers(especially early in the season) that makes a big difference for
safety; less fighting for the same patch of road, and easier for officials
to keep an eye on everyone.

The promotor could easily make a change for the rest of this series to have
the fields be senior 5s and senior 3/4s. It wouldn't even affect any series
standings, since the 4/5 race was entirely nullified. The 4s would just
only be able to earn points in the final two races of the series.

So I wonder: any chance that we could see a change in the fields for the
next couple of races in this series? If not, I think I’m going to pass on
them. (Which makes me really sad; I think these are otherwise great races
in general, and I really, really want to support them.)

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 4:48 PM Brad Davidson via OBRA
wrote:

> Or just split the open fields at 3/4 and 5 like many other events do. This
> is the second year in a row that we've had:
>
> * A crash in the final sprint
> * Early race crashes due to wheel contact when the pack yo-yos on a climb
> or corner
> * Riders failing to respect the centerline rule
> * Riders forced off the right side of the road
>
> This is all novice-level stuff. I get it, winter is long and we're all
> excited to drop some watts in the sun again... but it seems like some folks
> might need a little more time on a fast-paced group ride, or out on the
> tarmac at PIR, before they're ready to handle their bike at full speed.
>
> Maybe there are other solutions than changing the split, but IMO there's a
> huge difference between the bottom of 5 and the top of 4. Putting them
> together this early in the season is just asking for trouble.
>
> I love Piece of Cake, but I won't race this event in this field again.
> I'll take a self-upgrade to 3 and gladly spend the rest of the year sucking
> wind at the back of the pack if that's what it takes to get me out.
>
> -Brad
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 15:44 John Wilger wrote:
>
>> It was literally the most dangerous race I’ve ever been in. And the whole
>> field (I hear) is being nullified. And rightly so.
>>
>> Literally begging the promoter to do a senior 3/4 field. Or do Masters as
>> 35+. Please? Some of us need to be able to go to work next week. :-D
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 3:32 PM Brandon Davidson via OBRA <
>> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing
>>> stuff goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw
>>>
>>> -Brad
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>> --
>> John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 <(971)%20678-0999> |
>> http://johnwilger.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Brad Davidson

2018-03-31

Or just split the open fields at 3/4 and 5 like many other events do. This
is the second year in a row that we've had:

* A crash in the final sprint
* Early race crashes due to wheel contact when the pack yo-yos on a climb
or corner
* Riders failing to respect the centerline rule
* Riders forced off the right side of the road

This is all novice-level stuff. I get it, winter is long and we're all
excited to drop some watts in the sun again... but it seems like some folks
might need a little more time on a fast-paced group ride, or out on the
tarmac at PIR, before they're ready to handle their bike at full speed.

Maybe there are other solutions than changing the split, but IMO there's a
huge difference between the bottom of 5 and the top of 4. Putting them
together this early in the season is just asking for trouble.

I love Piece of Cake, but I won't race this event in this field again. I'll
take a self-upgrade to 3 and gladly spend the rest of the year sucking wind
at the back of the pack if that's what it takes to get me out.

-Brad

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 15:44 John Wilger wrote:

> It was literally the most dangerous race I’ve ever been in. And the whole
> field (I hear) is being nullified. And rightly so.
>
> Literally begging the promoter to do a senior 3/4 field. Or do Masters as
> 35+. Please? Some of us need to be able to go to work next week. :-D
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 3:32 PM Brandon Davidson via OBRA <
> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>
>> Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing stuff
>> goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw
>>
>> -Brad
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> --
> John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 | http://johnwilger.com
>


John Wilger

2018-03-31

It was literally the most dangerous race I’ve ever been in. And the whole
field (I hear) is being nullified. And rightly so.

Literally begging the promoter to do a senior 3/4 field. Or do Masters as
35+. Please? Some of us need to be able to go to work next week. :-D

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 3:32 PM Brandon Davidson via OBRA <
obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

> Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing stuff
> goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:
>
> https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw
>
> -Brad
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
--
John Wilger | +1 (971) 678-0999 | http://johnwilger.com


Brandon Davidson

2018-03-31

Not calling any one individual out, there was a lot of embarrassing stuff goin on out there. Just gonna leave this here for y'all:

https://youtu.be/18x-7inBrmw

-Brad