OBRA: OBRA Chat: FW: Cyclocross categories

Candi Murray

2016-08-11

Adam
Thanks for catching this error.

Originally we had re-mapped as follows:

Cat A->Cat 1
Cat B->Cat 2
Cat C-> Cat 3
Current beginners->4
New beginners->5

After the vote the categories are re-mapped as follows:

Cat A->Cat 2
Cat B->Cat 3
Cat C->Cat 4
Beg->Cat 5
Anyone who wants to be a Cat 1 racer must be a Cat 1 in USAC or request an upgrade through us

I will ask the webmaster to correct the entry you quoted.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Adam Bergerson via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 9:59 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross Categories

First, thank you to everyone that came out to race #1 of the Keizer Rapids Cyclocross Series, especially the great volunteers and our Referee.

But... I'd like to remind racers of the new cyclocross categories. >From page 16 of the 2016 OBRA Racing Rules:
6.4 Cyclocross categories
Category 1 (Previously A)
Category 2 (Previously B)
Category 3 (Previously C)
Category 4 (Existing beginners)
Category 5 (New beginners starting in 2016)

We had some confusion tonight that I'm sure will get cleared up as the season gets rolling.

We look forward to seeing you next Wednesday for race #2 of the Keizer Rapids Series!

Thanks,
Adam
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Michael Benno

2006-08-30

While this does pose challenges for our cross series, I think it is more important for OBRA to maintain reciprocity with USAC. This reciprocity is partially responsible for allowing OBRA to be so dominate and effective in Oregon racing. As an someone who dabbles in Road, Cross, and MTB both in Oregon and out of state. It is quite nice that my OBRA racing levels transfer over to USAC.

I do think this new ranking would be painful the fist year, but maybe it would be beneficial in that those who are Cross only specialist will get out an race in other disciplines.

Michael Benno

USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had thought
that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note that I
received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection and
requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity with
them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: RE: Cyclocross

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

-----Original Message-----
From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
To: Farrell, Shawn
Subject: Cyclocross

Shawn
Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
be
and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
categories?
Candi Murray

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Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2006-08-30

Without all the details, my observation is cross is different than road and
mtb racing. My approach to cross is very different than an XC race. Even
though I do not race road, I would think a road rider would have a very
different view about a cross race than road. I race mtb sport and if I were
to race road I would be cat 5. Now that is funny to me as if I could keep
up with youngsters at the age of 57. I know Dave Zimbleman and I am no Dave
Zimbleman.... so if USA Cycling (the mother of all US cycling puts different
folks in all these cats as per their plan.... I would be racing beginner
cross "I guess" in my third year of racing? That is where I started. Life
is so complex. Would a testosterone patch help?
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Candi Murray"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

> USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had
> thought
> that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note that
> I
> received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection and
> requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity
> with
> them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
> work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
> To: cmurray@obra.org
> Subject: RE: Cyclocross
>
> Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
> Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
> Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
> Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
> To: Farrell, Shawn
> Subject: Cyclocross
>
> Shawn
> Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
> be
> and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
> categories?
> Candi Murray
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Brian L

2006-08-30

Not sure it is worth changing, but I'll just throw this out. Feel free to
ignore....

Proposed:
Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

Changes:
1. Add Cat 5 CX = 5 road or Beginner MTB
2. If a racer has no prior CX results, then self selection of categories is
permitted with certain boundaries. For instance:
Allowed to start in Cat 5 CX:
Cat 5, Cat 4, Beginner MTB, Sport MTB

Allowed to start in Cat 4 CX:
Cat 4, Cat 3, Sport MTB, Expert MTB

Allowed to start in Cat 3 CX:
Cat 4, Cat 3, Cat 2, Expert MTB, Semi-pro MTB

Allowed to start in Cat 2 CX:
Cat 2, Cat 1, Semi-pro MTB, Pro MTB

Allowed to start in Cat 1 CX:
NONE (previous CX race experience required)

3. If a racer upgrades in CX during the season, they are not upgraded in
other disciplines. And the CX Cat that they finish the season with is what
they start the next season with unless they have upgraded out of the
boundaries set forth in #2.

4. Current OBRA fields translate as follows
A = Cat 1/2 CX
B = Cat 3 CX
C = Cat 4 CX
Beginner = Cat 5 CX

-----Original Message-----
From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:18 PM
To: 'Brian L'
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

There are so many cans of worms here I think that the best idea would be to
ignore USAC (again) and stick to our own system.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian L [mailto:listbd@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:18 PM
To: cmurray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

If a racer is Expert MTB and Road Cat 4, into which category are they
placed?

Also, if one upgrades by doing well in 'cross races, let's say to Cat 3 CX,
but they don't race much road, would they remain road Cat 4? If so, when CX
comes around again next year do they have to start all over again in Cat 4
CX?

(This actually could be my situation, Expert MTB, Cat 4 Road, Cat 3 CX.
Then again, I'm likely to do SS 'cross, so maybe I don't care...)

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had thought
that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note that I
received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection and
requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity with
them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: RE: Cyclocross

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

-----Original Message-----
From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
To: Farrell, Shawn
Subject: Cyclocross

Shawn
Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
be
and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
categories?
Candi Murray

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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Todd.Dye@CH2M.com

2006-08-30

If these categories were run in Oregon according to the USAC definitions
below, you'd have massive fields in the Cat 4 (likely most of the people
racing the C and Beginner Fields last year) and much smaller fields in
the Cat 1 and Cat 2 (splitting up those currently in the A field into 2
separate fields). Cat 3 would be probably be comparable to what B is
now, though you may have a number of B racers who are Sport or Cat 4
Road that would be bumped down to Cat 4, making that field even more of
a problem.

From a participation standpoint, it makes more sense to combine the Cat
1 CX and Cat 2 CX categories into a single field on race day, and split
the USAC CX Cat 4 into a Cat 4 and "Beginner" fields.

The categories would look like this:

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB,
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 Road, Sport or Beginner MTB
Beginner CX = Cat 5 Road, Beginner MTB and First timer cross.

The fields would look like this (pretty much what we have now with a
different name)

Cat 1/2 CX (currently A)
Cat 3 CX (currently B)
Cat 4 CX (Currently C)
Beginner CX

Let the true CX beginners chose to race the beginner field or choose to
"Cat up" to the Cat 4 from the start or when they are ready. This
wouldn't pose any conflict with the USAC categories since you could only
"self-select" as high as Cat 4 CX which is USAC's lowest category. An
OBRA beginner would have to race USAC Cat 4 CX which is what they would
do now. I think this is consistent with the USAC category names which
is the purpose of aligning with their categories for reciprocity in the
first place.

The whole self-selection issue is another can of worms. I race Cat 3
road, Expert MTB, and have self-selected B as my CX category. I finish
in about the same place relative to my field in all three disciplines,
so it seems about right to me. Being assigned to Cat 3 for CX would
work fine for me, but it wouldn't work so well for others.

To implement category assignments, I think the initial assignment would
have to be done according to the road or MTB categories you race in, but
there would have to be an application process for those riders that only
race CX or whose road and mtb categories don't line up neatly with the
new cross category. If you can show that you've raced B's before and
placed reasonably within the field, then you should be able to petition
to be placed as a Cat 3 CX regardless of whether you're a beginner
MTB'er or Cat 5 on the road. Then, after everyone is sorted, somebody
would need to keep an eye on the results to re-assign anybody who is
consistently lapping most of the field or who consistently finishes 2
laps down.

Now, the problem is.....this sounds like a whole lot of work for someone
to sort out and would only benefit a few OBRA racers that race USAC
cross races. I'd bet there would be a lot more people petitioning OBRA
to be changed out of their newly assigned categories than there are OBRA
racers that would need to petition USAC to be able to race something
other than Cat 5 CX.

My $0.02.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had
thought that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The
note that I received from them is below. They are not allowing any self
selection and requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have
reciprocity with them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that
their system will not work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: RE: Cyclocross

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

-----Original Message-----
From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
To: Farrell, Shawn
Subject: Cyclocross

Shawn
Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
be and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
categories?
Candi Murray

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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Sami Fournier

2006-08-30

There was a lot of discussion about this last winter when we were buying '06 USAC licenses. USA Cycling did not allow us to self-select, but they do not require you to start at the bottom, and they offer considerable leeway in the process of applying for an upgrade. They consider your road/mtn cat. as well as cyclocross results and experience, all you have to do is submit your results online. I didn't hear of any real complaining about people being denied an upgrade. I would understand that this might be time consuming (and a little unnecessary if fields are small) for OBRA, however, and would suggest taking the rider's highest category, road or mountain, and using the chart to correlate the cat. for 'cross.

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

So Expert MTB would be a cat. 3 crosser. Of course this should have no bearing on your MTB or Road Category, which you're already stuck with. So yes, you could be a cat. 4 on the road, Semi-pro MTBer and a cat. 1 'crosser. You might split the fields into two, Cat. 1-3 and novice 'crossers, but most likely you'd run all together, and the one benefit of using the system that I can think of would be to pull out the novice 'cross racers and score them separately. I don't think USAC has field limits for 'cross upgrades.

I know USA Cycling doesn't give downgrades unless they are requested, and your results in different disciplines are generally considered separately.

Sami
----- Original Message ----
From: Brian L
To: cmurray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:18:24 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

If a racer is Expert MTB and Road Cat 4, into which category are they
placed?

Also, if one upgrades by doing well in 'cross races, let's say to Cat 3 CX,
but they don't race much road, would they remain road Cat 4? If so, when CX
comes around again next year do they have to start all over again in Cat 4
CX?

(This actually could be my situation, Expert MTB, Cat 4 Road, Cat 3 CX.
Then again, I'm likely to do SS 'cross, so maybe I don't care...)

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had thought
that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note that I
received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection and
requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity with
them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: RE: Cyclocross

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

-----Original Message-----
From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
To: Farrell, Shawn
Subject: Cyclocross

Shawn
Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
be
and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
categories?
Candi Murray

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

shane.young@comcast.net

2006-08-30

I think there is a lot of gray area but it can translate to a plus or minus 1. I don't think there is a straight across equitant.

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 and/or 2 road and pro and/or semi-pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 1, 2 and/or 3 road and pro, semi-pro and/or expert MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 2, 3 and/or 4 road and semi-pro, expert and/or sport MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and sport and/or beginner MTB

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Candi Murray"

> USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had thought
> that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note that I
> received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection and
> requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity with
> them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
> work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
> To: cmurray@obra.org
> Subject: RE: Cyclocross
>
> Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
> Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
> Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
> Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
> To: Farrell, Shawn
> Subject: Cyclocross
>
> Shawn
> Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
> be
> and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
> categories?
> Candi Murray
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steven Beardsley

2006-08-30

Perhaps it should be like categories on the track. If you are a Cat 1 on the
road but start racing on the track, you start as a Cat 5 and most likely
would move up very quickly.

I would suggest that Candi could put riders in the CX categories according
to the suggested placements at first and then offer to move people if they
think they are not able to compete at that level.

I also don't see why there could not be a beginner's category still. It
would be below CX Cat 4 and would offer a good place for people to start.

I do think that it is a bad idea to stray from the categories that USCF uses
as it would make it harder to race and perhaps get an upgrade in USCF races
outside of OBRA.

My 2 cents

- Steven
www.supersteveo.com

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:00 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

Actually, for the beginners, this wouldn't really work.

I know a guy who's pretty strong on the road (cat 3) who might get eaten up
in a cat 3 cross race, at least at first. Cross takes some skill
development before you can equate road and cross based on fitness.

Interesting...

-Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:32 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

Doesn't seem to be a big deal, does it?

A = cat 1/2
B = cat 3
C = cat 4/5

Then there's women 1/2,3,4 (A,B,C) and masters 1/2,3,4 (A,B,C)

It would work out to be about the same, right?

-Erik

USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had thought
that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note that I
received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection and
requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity with
them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Farrell, Shawn [mailto:sfarrell@usacycling.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: RE: Cyclocross

Cat 1 CX = Cat 1 road and pro MTB
Cat 2 CX = Cat 2 road and semi-pro MTB
Cat 3 CX = Cat 3 road and expert MTB
Cat 4 CX = Cat 4 or 5 road, and beginner or sport MTB

-----Original Message-----
From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:15 AM
To: Farrell, Shawn
Subject: Cyclocross

Shawn
Do you have any documentation on what the new cyclocross categories will
be
and how you plan on translating them from either road or mtn bike
categories?
Candi Murray

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Freyensee, James P

2006-08-30

Yeah, I'm a Cat 1/2 on road, and have never done a CX race. If I were
to do my first one, I would want to place myself no higher than in the
'B' group.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:00 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

Actually, for the beginners, this wouldn't really work.

I know a guy who's pretty strong on the road (cat 3) who might get eaten
up
in a cat 3 cross race, at least at first. Cross takes some skill
development before you can equate road and cross based on fitness.

Interesting...

-Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:32 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: Cyclocross categories

Doesn't seem to be a big deal, does it?

A = cat 1/2
B = cat 3
C = cat 4/5

Then there's women 1/2,3,4 (A,B,C) and masters 1/2,3,4 (A,B,C)

It would work out to be about the same, right?

-Erik

USA Cycling is adopting a tiered cyclocross category system. I had
thought
that it would be a good time to change ours to match theirs. The note
that I
received from them is below. They are not allowing any self selection
and
requiring all rides to start at the bottom. While we have reciprocity
with
them for the road/mtn bike categories, I fear that their system will not
work here in Oregon. Thoughts?
Candi