Jay Rideout
I think we are up to a .10 (ALT+0162). Leaving it the same... what a novel concept. It might be good to hear about some of the original thrashing and bashing that went into the existing points scheme. Perhaps it does represent the best comprimise.
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Cheryl Willson
To: Obra
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:58:50 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Meeting Rules Proposals
Speaking as someone that gets a lot of the questions about the BAR, a lot people do care about it. Yes, only a few may be in contention to win each category but many like to place well or better than they did before. Or maybe they just care about it - all I know is that I get many questions about it.
That being said, my two cents is that I think that there is a lot to be said for keeping it the same...even if it is only to reduce the number of questions. Yes, this is for selfish reasons (but also for unselfish reasons - why confuse people?) There will always be questions and confusion but change will likely lead to more questions and confusion (at least in the short term).
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Eric Kytola"
Date: January 31, 2007 10:52:45 AM PST
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
How many people actually race for the BAR? A few in each category right. Well then maybe those people racing for the BAR will attend smaller races. I would perceive that as a good thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:12 AM
To: jbrideout@yahoo.com; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you get full
points. What about using different points scales based on
participation...bigger fields=more points:
60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
1st 30 27 24
2nd 25 23 20
3rd 22 20 18
4th 19 18 16
5th 17 16 14
6th 15 14 12
7th 13 12 11
8th 11 10 9
9th 9 9 8
10th 7 7 6
11th 5 5 5
12th 4 4 4
13th 3 3 3
14th 2 2 2
15th 1 1 1
Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the bigger
the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at it, and
those numbers could be tweaked.
I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better races. But
that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair measure
of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on what
benefits the promoters. That's my 2ยข (not on the keyboard...but type
ALT+0162).
Ron
From: Jay Rideout
To: Rick Johnson
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to
be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of
points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points
value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers,
sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be
distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
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