Banana Belt Updates

Jeff Mitchem

2014-04-29

*Start Times*
Reminder: start times have changed from past years. Check website for BB14
start times: http://www.pedalevent.com/banana-belt-road-race.html.

*Parking*
Parking passes ($6) are required and available at race registration. DO NOT
stop at the front gate. Park staff have requested that we bikers not clog
up the line.

*Staging & Parking*
Race staging and starts will occur in the upper parking lot at Boat Ramp
"C". So, please be aware that if you park in the upper lot you may be
blocked by 100s of bikers.

*Wheels*
No neutral support will be available. So, bring extra wheels.

*Volunteers*
We are still in need of afternoon lead and support drivers. Free
entry/lunch/parking in trade for volunteering. Contact Chris at
chris@joywebb.com.

__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
c: 971.400.1840


Jeff Mitchem

2014-04-14

*Morning Races Start Times:*
Master Men 1/2/3 (40+, 50+, 60+): 9:30am, 55 miles
Master Men 4/5 (40+, 50+, 60+): 9:35am, 44 miles
Men 5 Group A: 9:40am, 44 miles
Juniors: 9:45am, 33 miles
Men 5 (Group B if needed): 9:50am, 44 miles

*Afternoon races (unchanged):*
Men 1/2: 12:30pm, 77 miles
Men 3: 12:35pm, 66 miles
Men 4: 12:40pm, 55 miles
Women 1/2/3 & Master Women 1/2/3 (40+, 50+): 12:45pm, 55 miles
Women 4/5 & Master Women 4/5 (40+, 50+): 12:50pm, 44 miles

*Race Flyer & Registration:*
http://www.pedalevent.com/banana-belt-road-race.html

*Volunteer and Race Free:*
http://www.volunteerspot.com/login/entry/535142806029
Chris Joy-Webb: chris@joywebb.com / 503.703.1860
__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
c: 971.400.1840


Jeff Mitchem

2013-05-04

*Online Registration*. CLOSES IN 1/2 HOUR at 6 pm.
*
Weather*. In case you hadn't noticed, the Hagg Lake forecast for race day
is a sunny 82 degrees!

*Water*. Please be prepared - hydrate and bring extra. Limited water will
be available at the staging area. However, both restrooms near the staging
area have potable water.

*Parking*. Parking will be restricted in the upper parking lot nearest the
Registration Tent. The main parking lot nearest the boat ramp may fill. If
that's the case, overflow parking is available approx 1/4 mile in either
direction around the lake from the staging area at Boat Ramp C.

*Access to/from Staging at Boat Ramp C*. This year, all BBs will race in
the outer lane (counter-clockwise) around the lake. When driving to/from
Race Staging, avoid getting caught up in race traffic by driving in the
inner lane (clockwise).
*
Race Categories*. Please remember that categories with less than 15 riders
will be combined. Volunteers and officials are prepared for full fields in
all categories.

*Center Line*. This will be a busy weekend at the lake so please be extra
cautious and mind that yellow line!

*Course Condition*. In addition to the usual patched up potholes and rough
pavement on the finish climb, there is a new hazard - approximately 5k from
the start the inner lane is closed. A course marshal will be present to
stop oncoming traffic as fields approach. The lane closure forces race
traffic onto the shoulder for approximately 50'. Signage will be present to
warn riders of this hazard.

Travel safe, see you Sunday!
__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
pedal
c: 971.400.1840


Jeff Mitchem

2013-05-01

Parking Fee and Volunteers. I will reimburse volunteers for the parking
fee. You still need to stop at the Fee Booth to get a pass though.

Number placement. One horizontal centered on pockets, one vertical on right
side.
__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
pedal
c: 971.400.1840

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Adam Tate wrote:

> One more question, numbers on which side ?
>


Jeff Mitchem

2013-05-01

*Pre-Registration.* Closes Friday at 6pm.

*The Course*. We will be using the same course as in past years - the 11
mile loop around Hagg Lake. All races will travel in a counter-clockwise
direction with a hill-top finish.

*Parking Fee*. $5 for all vehicles - tickets obtained at the fee booth near
entry to park. Carpool and save.

*Weather*. Turns out the weather does get nice at Hagg Lake. Race day
forecast is sunny and 80!

*Volunteers*. There are still a few spots open. Please reply if interested.
Race free.

*Phil's Cash for Juniors*. Mr Phil Sanders has graciously offered to
sweeten the pot for the Juniors - $75/race. 3-deep. Specific prize list for
all categories will be announced and posted prior to the last race.

Reply with question. Stay tuned for more updates...
__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
pedal
c: 971.400.1840


Jeff Mitchem

2013-04-17

*Online Registration*. Please register online -
http://www.obra.org/flyers/2013/banana_belt_series.html

*Volunteers*. Always needed, taken care of and greatly appreciated. Please
reply if you would like to volunteer in exchange for an entry fee.

*Course*. Stand by for possible course extension to include Patton Valley
Road. Waiting for authorization from the Rail Road...

More updates to follow....
__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
pedal!
c: 971.400.1840


Jeff Mitchem

2012-03-15

Series Standings
*http://obra.org/events/20532/results *

Feed Zone
Due to the longer distance for the Cat 1/2 and Cat 3 Men, a feed zone will
be established opposite the entrance to Boat Ramp "C" - *
http://g.co/maps/4syuj*

Preregistration
Online preregistration will remain open until midnight Friday.*
http://www.obra.org/flyers/2012/banana_belt_series.html*

Prize List
Prizes are a combination of medals (homemade and useful), gift certificates
to Olson's Bicycles
(*http://www.olsonsbicycles.com/*),
Garmin, Rapha product, Fuji Bicycle (Cat 4/5 Women winner) and Fuji
Frameset (Men 5 winner). Specific distribution depends upon participation
and will be posted at registration.

Oregon Cup
BB#3 is the first Oregon Cup event for 2012 - Senior Men 1/2 and Women
1/2/3. *http://obra.org/oregon_cup*

Weather
Yes.

Questions
Please reply or call.

__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
cell.971.400.1840
Rapha Racing NW
PEDAL
www.pedalevent.com


Chris Smith

2012-03-10

It is still saying that registration is closed for this event. Is anybody
else having that problem? I'd hate to be the only one.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Jeff Mitchem wrote:

> Pre-Registration.
> Sorry for the premature closing of online pre-reg. Apparently, the race is
> so popular presently that the server is bogging down. Online pre-reg will
> remain open until midnight tonight.
>
> Weather Policy.
> We will deliver a top-notch event rain or shine. Snow is another issue
> with which we are painfully familiar. If the course is covered in snow
> (which it won't be), I will send an email to the list by 6:00am Sunday
> indicating that the race is re-scheduled.
>
> Race Direction.
> For BB#2 and #3, we will be racing the same direction as BB#1 - counter to
> the clock. We have good reasons for this including safety and better
> racing.
>
> Time Change.
> Remember - SPRING FORWARD prior to retiring Saturday evening. Tardy bike
> racers will not be refunded.
>
> One Release Form for the Series.
> Enough about that.
>
> Questions?
> Do not hesitate to reply to this email or call Jeff Mitchem at
> 971.400.1840.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________
> *Jeff Mitchem*
> cell.971.400.1840
> Rapha Racing NW
> PEDAL
> www.pedalevent.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Jeff Mitchem

2012-03-10

Pre-Registration.
Sorry for the premature closing of online pre-reg. Apparently, the race is
so popular presently that the server is bogging down. Online pre-reg will
remain open until midnight tonight.

Weather Policy.
We will deliver a top-notch event rain or shine. Snow is another issue with
which we are painfully familiar. If the course is covered in snow (which it
won't be), I will send an email to the list by 6:00am Sunday indicating
that the race is re-scheduled.

Race Direction.
For BB#2 and #3, we will be racing the same direction as BB#1 - counter to
the clock. We have good reasons for this including safety and better
racing.

Time Change.
Remember - SPRING FORWARD prior to retiring Saturday evening. Tardy bike
racers will not be refunded.

One Release Form for the Series.
Enough about that.

Questions?
Do not hesitate to reply to this email or call Jeff Mitchem at
971.400.1840.

__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
cell.971.400.1840
Rapha Racing NW
PEDAL
www.pedalevent.com


Jeff Mitchem

2012-03-01

Pre-Registration
Online pre-registration closes at 6pm Friday. We expect full fields because
the weather is going to be awesome. So, pre-register and save yourself time
in line.

Weather
Current conditions at the lake - 46 degrees, light rain, 2 inches of fresh
glop melting fast. Forecast calls for drying/warming through Sunday night.
Raceday forecast: 57 degrees, partly sunny!

Sponsors
Please visit our sponsors - Fuji , Kruger's
Produce ,
Adidas,
Rapha , Olson's Bikes .

Prize List
CAT 4 Women grand prize - Fuji Supreme 2.0 carbon/105 bike. CAT 4 Men grand
prize - Altamira 1.0 carbon cross frameset. MEN Cat 5 grand prizes - Garmin
Edge 200. Remainder of categories will receive medals, gift certificates
and Rapha product. Final prize distribution will be posted at registration
on BB#3, March 18th.

Oregon Cup
Race #3 on March 18th is the first race in the Oregon Cup series.

Volunteers
Always accepting volunteers in exchange for free entry. Reply if
interested.

Wenzel Coaching
Kendra and crew will be out on BB#1 only - Coaching for Women 4/5 at 8:30
and Men 5 at 11:30 near the start line.

__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
cell.971.400.1840
Rapha Racing NW
PEDAL
www.pedalevent.com


Jeff Mitchem

2010-02-23

WEATHER: 56 degrees partly sunny.

COURSE CONDITION: Pavement improvements to rough spots will allow for
counter-clockwise race direction for BB#2 w/ uphill finish.

PARKING PASSES: Not required for race #1. Required for races #2, #3 from
front gate....Carpool to spread $5 fee, and arrive early to avoid line.

ONLINE REGISTRATION: *Closes tomorrow, Wed 2/24 at 5 pm.*

PRE-REGISTERED RIDERS: *Be sure to check* *in* at registration.

NUMBER PLACEMENT: Right side, center back pocket.

VOLUNTEERS:
Positions & Schedule:
http://sites.google.com/site/bananabelt10/
Corner Marshal Instructions -
http://sites.google.com/site/bananabelt10/home/corner-marshal
Lead / Support Driver Instructions -
http://sites.google.com/site/bananabelt10/home/lead-support-vehicle
Race #2 and #3 positions still open. Reply if interested.
--
Jeff Mitchem
c.503.708.0056


Jeff Mitchem

2009-03-02

BB#1 -
Thanks to all 490+ of you who participated in the grimiest BB on record.
Check out the online photos!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brujo/sets/72157614582644523/ . Kudos to Team
Beer for seeking the line less traveled. Results are being confirmed and
will be posted soon.

BB#2 -
Online Registration. Online registration will be open until 3 pm Friday.
Some fields filled up, some came close. So get in early.
Pre-Registered Riders. SIGN NO RELEASE FORMS. ALL PRE-REGISTERED RIDERS MUST
CHECK-IN at registration on printed start lists - very quick, painless and
essential.
Day of Registration. OBRA memberships are required and will be available. If
you signed a release form at BB#1, do not sign another. New riders will need
to sign release forms.
Course Direction. Will remain clockwise. The curb-sized crack within 50
meters of the uphill finish remains potentially lethal.
Parking Fee. Yes. Carpool to spread the $5 cost. Ranger Smith will ticket.
Weather. Spring is in the air! Forecast calls for partly cloudy, 53 degrees
10% chance of rain.
Volunteers. Volunteers are always welcome and compensated with one free
entry to a BB or two free entries to PIR. Reply if interested.
Points and Prizes. Finish points in all categories are awarded 15 deep (20,
18, 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2). Cat 1-2 Men and Cat 3 Men
Hot Spot (sprint laps) points are awarded three deep (5, 3, 2) + $50 cash to
winner. Cat 1/2 Men: Race 2 - lap 2, 4; Race 3 - lap 1, 3, 5. Cat 3 Men:
Race 2 - lap 3; Race 3 - lap 2, 4. Overall prizes will consist of medals
three deep and cash to be distributed based on participation. Payout
schedule will be posted at registration prior to BB#3.
BB#3 - Oregon Cup. BB#3 is the first OR Cup of the season - points go
20-deep in the Cat 1-2 men and Cat 1-2 women.
Questions. Don't hesitate to reply.

Train safe.
JM


Jeff Mitchem

2009-02-27

Weather
Sunday, Mar 1
High: 53 °F
Mostly cloudy with rain possible

Parking Fee
No Parking Fee for Race #1. $5 for race # 2 and 3.

Points
15 deep - 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2

Hot Spots - 5, 3, 2 points
Cat 1/2 Men - Race 1 - lap 3; Race 2 - lap 2, 4; Race 3 - lap 1, 3, 5.
Cat 3 Men - Race 1 - lap 2; Race 2 - lap 3; Race 3 - lap 2, 4.


Trispoke@aol.com

2008-03-05

Sorry, but no. The finish crashes I have seen at BB were more of an issue
when running the downhill in the other direction. The finish as it stands now
is only downhill for about 100 meters then mostly flat. Our most serious
crashes of the past 2 years have occurred, more often than anywhere else, at
PIR, which has perhaps the most open sprinting lane you could find anywhere in
the state. Yes, they will happen, but the sprints in OBRA are nothing compared
to a lot of other regions, such as the Killington stage which ended after a 3
mile gradual downhill and a 40+mph sprint in the 3's. I think there are
usually greater risks from braking on carbon wheels in the wet, dogs, errant
fishing boats, etc.
Stay safe,
Ian Penner

In a message dated 3/4/08 10:51:15 AM, bikexcr@hotmail.com writes:

> Thank you Erik. Finally someone in OBRA land opened up to look outside the
> box. He may have even explained it better than I had.
>
> The main point WAS, downhill finishes do not have a place in road racing.
> Like Erik stated, in a TRUE sprint, only the TRUE sprinters are at the front,
> while the climbers and tt riders are hanging off the back watching. Therefore
> its a SPRINTERS race, and the sprinters get their chance.
>
> In a downhill finish, such as BB, you have EVERYONE there. There is no
> separation of skill that should naturally occur, even in a flat sprint. Therefore
> you truly do take the SKILL out of the sprint, and start to throw in more
> luck and danger.
>
> Yes, i do watch all those BIG races, and yes i have seen ALL those crashes.
> But when have you ever seen a downhill finish in either of those races?
> Answer me this. If you can give me an exact example and video proof, ill shut up.
> But till then i will stand by my view, and shun me as you may, but i just
> cannot agree that a downhill finish is something to be excepted and argued for.
> You want a downhill finish, go race DH on your mt bike.
>
> V  
>

**************
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance.
(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)


Harry Phinney

2008-03-04

Ø Finally someone in OBRA land opened up to look outside the box. He may
have even explained it better than I had.

Yes, those of us who disagree with you are simply too close minded or myopic
to see the real truth; the real strength and beauty of those who lack skill,
leg speed, or tactical sense. We?re too dense to understand the need to
sugar-coat and foam-pad the entire world to make it all safe for the lowest
common denominator. I bow to your obviously superior insight, understanding,
and knowledge of bicycle racing.

Tell me, were the sprint finishes significantly safer in the dead flat
finish of the old Cherry Pie course near Harrisburg than in this terribly
dangerous Hagg Lake finish? Oh, that?s right, the only proper finish is up a
steep hill as anything else is far too dangerous and/or fails to select the
most ?talented athlete?.

Harry Phinney

PS: Why don?t you at least have the courtesy to sign your missives?


gschreckchat@comcast.net

2008-03-04

yes, if, but it usually does not.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Long, Steve"

You know, even in the clockwise direction at Haag, this usually only happens when the pace is kept pretty low for most of the race. If the pace kicks up high enough, and riders continue the pace and attacking, the field WILL seperate and the strong will be at the front.
The problem is a lack of racing during most of the race.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of r r
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 AM
To: Erik Voldengen; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

Thank you Erik. Finally someone in OBRA land opened up to look outside the box. He may have even explained it better than I had.

The main point WAS, downhill finishes do not have a place in road racing. Like Erik stated, in a TRUE sprint, only the TRUE sprinters are at the front, while the climbers and tt riders are hanging off the back watching. Therefore its a SPRINTERS race, and the sprinters get their chance.

In a downhill finish, such as BB, you have EVERYONE there. There is no separation of skill that should naturally occur, even in a flat sprint. Therefore you truly do take the SKILL out of the sprint, and start to throw in more luck and danger.

Yes, i do watch all those BIG races, and yes i have seen ALL those crashes. But when have you ever seen a downhill finish in either of those races? Answer me this. If you can give me an exact example and video proof, ill shut up. But till then i will stand by my view, and shun me as you may, but i just cannot agree that a downhill finish is something to be excepted and argued for. You want a downhill finish, go race DH on your mt bike.

V

> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:40:34 -0800
> From: erikv@erikv.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
>
> I know this is a little off topic in regards to the original post, not
> to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with the opinion that
> downhill sprints are just as safe as any other, especially at this
> course.
>
> On a flat sprint, take PIR for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
> only the fast guys in front. On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
> 40mph, and it goes up from there. Say what you will, superhandlers,
> but bikes handle differently at those kind of speeds. Combine that
> with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't there a bridge to compress the
> group in the final K?), and I can completely see V's point of view.
> Not the safest finish, but then it's my choice whether to race or not.
>
> -Erik
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Thank you Candi. Very good point. So would you say, that the BB's (1 and 3) finish goes against what you would like to see? The abolishment of all downhill or dip finishes?

All categories should be taken inconsideration when plotting out a course. When its just a pro 1/2 field, make it more crazy. But when you have many different fields racing the same course, one must take into account the lack of experience in the beginners field. As a former mt bike race organizer, in another state, i knew the pros could handle how the course was, but still went out and smoothed things out to help the beginners get through it safely. Remember, just because you and i know how to ride our bike in these situations, does not mean the person next to you or in a lower field finds finds it to be as easy.

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:55:14 -0800

We had a very ugly crash at last years Victor Point Road race
where one rider almost died. And this was just in a little dip before the
finish. While I think tht many fields can handle them, a Cat 4 and Cat 5
field has more variables. I for one do not want any downhill sprint
finishes.

Candi Murray
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of r r
Sent:
Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 AM
To: Erik Voldengen;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt
Updates

Thank you Erik. Finally someone in OBRA land
opened up to look outside the box. He may have even explained it better than I
had.

The main point WAS, downhill finishes do not have a place in road
racing. Like Erik stated, in a TRUE sprint, only the TRUE sprinters are at the
front, while the climbers and tt riders are hanging off the back watching.
Therefore its a SPRINTERS race, and the sprinters get their chance.

In a
downhill finish, such as BB, you have EVERYONE there. There is no separation of
skill that should naturally occur, even in a flat sprint. Therefore you truly do
take the SKILL out of the sprint, and start to throw in more luck and danger.

Yes, i do watch all those BIG races, and yes i have seen ALL those
crashes. But when have you ever seen a downhill finish in either of those races?
Answer me this. If you can give me an exact example and video proof, ill shut
up. But till then i will stand by my view, and shun me as you may, but i just
cannot agree that a downhill finish is something to be excepted and argued for.
You want a downhill finish, go race DH on your mt bike.

V

> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:40:34 -0800
> From: erikv@erikv.com
>
To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt
Updates
>
> I know this is a little off topic in regards to the
original post, not
> to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with
the opinion that
> downhill sprints are just as safe as any other,
especially at this
> course.
>
> On a flat sprint, take PIR
for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
> only the fast guys in front.
On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
> 40mph, and it goes up from there.
Say what you will, superhandlers,
> but bikes handle differently at those
kind of speeds. Combine that
> with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't
there a bridge to compress the
> group in the final K?), and I can
completely see V's point of view.
> Not the safest finish, but then it's
my choice whether to race or not.
>
> -Erik
>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing
list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power. Play now!

_________________________________________________________________
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http://biggestloser.msn.com/


Candi Murray

2008-03-04

We had a very ugly crash at last years Victor Point Road race where one
rider almost died. And this was just in a little dip before the finish.
While I think tht many fields can handle them, a Cat 4 and Cat 5 field has
more variables. I for one do not want any downhill sprint finishes.

Candi Murray
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of r r
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 AM
To: Erik Voldengen; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

Thank you Erik. Finally someone in OBRA land opened up to look outside the
box. He may have even explained it better than I had.

The main point WAS, downhill finishes do not have a place in road racing.
Like Erik stated, in a TRUE sprint, only the TRUE sprinters are at the
front, while the climbers and tt riders are hanging off the back watching.
Therefore its a SPRINTERS race, and the sprinters get their chance.

In a downhill finish, such as BB, you have EVERYONE there. There is no
separation of skill that should naturally occur, even in a flat sprint.
Therefore you truly do take the SKILL out of the sprint, and start to throw
in more luck and danger.

Yes, i do watch all those BIG races, and yes i have seen ALL those crashes.
But when have you ever seen a downhill finish in either of those races?
Answer me this. If you can give me an exact example and video proof, ill
shut up. But till then i will stand by my view, and shun me as you may, but
i just cannot agree that a downhill finish is something to be excepted and
argued for. You want a downhill finish, go race DH on your mt bike.

V

_____

> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:40:34 -0800
> From: erikv@erikv.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
>
> I know this is a little off topic in regards to the original post, not
> to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with the opinion that
> downhill sprints are just as safe as any other, especially at this
> course.
>
> On a flat sprint, take PIR for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
> only the fast guys in front. On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
> 40mph, and it goes up from there. Say what you will, superhandlers,
> but bikes handle differently at those kind of speeds. Combine that
> with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't there a bridge to compress the
> group in the final K?), and I can completely see V's point of view.
> Not the safest finish, but then it's my choice whether to race or not.
>
> -Erik
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power. Play now!


Long, Steve

2008-03-04

You know, even in the clockwise direction at Haag, this usually only
happens when the pace is kept pretty low for most of the race. If the
pace kicks up high enough, and riders continue the pace and attacking,
the field WILL seperate and the strong will be at the front.
The problem is a lack of racing during most of the race.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of r r
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 AM
To: Erik Voldengen; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

Thank you Erik. Finally someone in OBRA land opened up to look outside
the box. He may have even explained it better than I had.

The main point WAS, downhill finishes do not have a place in road
racing. Like Erik stated, in a TRUE sprint, only the TRUE sprinters are
at the front, while the climbers and tt riders are hanging off the back
watching. Therefore its a SPRINTERS race, and the sprinters get their
chance.

In a downhill finish, such as BB, you have EVERYONE there. There is no
separation of skill that should naturally occur, even in a flat sprint.
Therefore you truly do take the SKILL out of the sprint, and start to
throw in more luck and danger.

Yes, i do watch all those BIG races, and yes i have seen ALL those
crashes. But when have you ever seen a downhill finish in either of
those races? Answer me this. If you can give me an exact example and
video proof, ill shut up. But till then i will stand by my view, and
shun me as you may, but i just cannot agree that a downhill finish is
something to be excepted and argued for. You want a downhill finish, go
race DH on your mt bike.

V

________________________________

> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:40:34 -0800
> From: erikv@erikv.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
>
> I know this is a little off topic in regards to the original post, not
> to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with the opinion that
> downhill sprints are just as safe as any other, especially at this
> course.
>
> On a flat sprint, take PIR for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
> only the fast guys in front. On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
> 40mph, and it goes up from there. Say what you will, superhandlers,
> but bikes handle differently at those kind of speeds. Combine that
> with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't there a bridge to compress the
> group in the final K?), and I can completely see V's point of view.
> Not the safest finish, but then it's my choice whether to race or not.
>
> -Erik
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

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Thank you Erik. Finally someone in OBRA land opened up to look outside the box. He may have even explained it better than I had.

The main point WAS, downhill finishes do not have a place in road racing. Like Erik stated, in a TRUE sprint, only the TRUE sprinters are at the front, while the climbers and tt riders are hanging off the back watching. Therefore its a SPRINTERS race, and the sprinters get their chance.

In a downhill finish, such as BB, you have EVERYONE there. There is no separation of skill that should naturally occur, even in a flat sprint. Therefore you truly do take the SKILL out of the sprint, and start to throw in more luck and danger.

Yes, i do watch all those BIG races, and yes i have seen ALL those crashes. But when have you ever seen a downhill finish in either of those races? Answer me this. If you can give me an exact example and video proof, ill shut up. But till then i will stand by my view, and shun me as you may, but i just cannot agree that a downhill finish is something to be excepted and argued for. You want a downhill finish, go race DH on your mt bike.

V

> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:40:34 -0800
> From: erikv@erikv.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
>
> I know this is a little off topic in regards to the original post, not
> to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with the opinion that
> downhill sprints are just as safe as any other, especially at this
> course.
>
> On a flat sprint, take PIR for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
> only the fast guys in front. On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
> 40mph, and it goes up from there. Say what you will, superhandlers,
> but bikes handle differently at those kind of speeds. Combine that
> with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't there a bridge to compress the
> group in the final K?), and I can completely see V's point of view.
> Not the safest finish, but then it's my choice whether to race or not.
>
> -Erik
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Robert Anderson

2008-03-04

My suggestion to keep the BB2 finish uphill, has nothing to do with my
concerns about the safety of the downhill finish. Chris Haverty expressed my
logic precisely. Variety.

Erik, You point out some well known (I hope) hazards of a downhill finish,
and the BB course. Given that the finish is passed 3 times before the end of
the race, riders should know the hazards well, by the time they reach the
sprint. I don't think there is anything inherently more dangerous about the
BB1 finish than most other finishes. In fact, because the descent to the
finish is so narrow, it provides a unique challenge to get in the right
position for the sprint. Much of the field is boxed in. Frustrating, but oh
well.

The safety of the finish (any finish) comes down to the riders behaving
rationally and not taking extreme risks to gain position. I'm happy to take
a lower spot in the results if it means everyone finishes safely. I hope
(and expect) others to return the favor.

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Erik Voldengen wrote:

> I know this is a little off topic in regards to the original post, not
> to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with the opinion that
> downhill sprints are just as safe as any other, especially at this
> course.
>
> On a flat sprint, take PIR for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
> only the fast guys in front. On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
> 40mph, and it goes up from there. Say what you will, superhandlers,
> but bikes handle differently at those kind of speeds. Combine that
> with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't there a bridge to compress the
> group in the final K?), and I can completely see V's point of view.
> Not the safest finish, but then it's my choice whether to race or not.
>
> -Erik
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com


Erik Voldengen

2008-03-04

I know this is a little off topic in regards to the original post, not
to mention unpopular, but I'll have to differ with the opinion that
downhill sprints are just as safe as any other, especially at this
course.

On a flat sprint, take PIR for example, we'll hit 40mph sometimes, but
only the fast guys in front. On a downhill sprint, EVERYONE is at
40mph, and it goes up from there. Say what you will, superhandlers,
but bikes handle differently at those kind of speeds. Combine that
with gravel laiden shoulders (and isn't there a bridge to compress the
group in the final K?), and I can completely see V's point of view.
Not the safest finish, but then it's my choice whether to race or not.

-Erik


Haverty, Chris

2008-03-04

Absolutely. OBRA races should have all kinds of finishes - uphill, downhill and flat.

Having said that, the BB series typically has a mix (2 downhill and 1 uphill finish) that gives riders with different talents a chance to do well. So, I think having an uphill finish in BB2, even on this years clockwise direction, would be a good thing.

Ride safe,
Chris

Brian Ratliff wrote:
No offense, but me being who I am, I'd be very sad if every finish in the OBRA schedule was a slow uphill finish. Sprinters wouldn't have a place in the schedule anymore.

2008/3/3 r r :
I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and true competition.

I've been racing the BB's for years, and have seen some (possible understatement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced out and even life-flighted) occur because of this downhill finish in the dip that the line is in. Being in the dip provides just too much speed for the close quarter chaos of the whole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less experience fields.

Didn't Silverton last year teach us any lesson at all about downhill finishes and safety issues in the peloton at the finish. How many more tragic accidents need to occur before changes are made, in not just the BB's but every race that has a sprint heading downhill to the line. Yes, there was no crash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or fault line, its only a matter of time till another horrible one happens again. Lets make it a more safe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will truly prevail (which is that not the point of competition; that the stronger and/or more talented athlete prevails). At the BB's, there is optimal scenarios for a finish line, with plenty of wide spots in the shoulder to accommodate the van/tent/camera. It will just mean you may have to ride a WHOLE mile back to the lot instead.

Safety should be of the up most importance in a bicycle race.

V

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0800
From: riznob@gmail.com
To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates


Can we at least move the finnish to a hill? Pretty please.

-Rob Anderson

2008/3/3 Jeff Mitchem :
Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

- Pre-Registered Riders. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of $, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.

- Un-registered Riders. We will have extra registration staff on hand with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.

- Course Direction. Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane we will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in the flyer.

- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot Cash. Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....

- Volunteers. Please confirm by replying to this email if you are interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free PIRs + parking fee.

- Field Size. When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with other fields.

- Comments Welcome. Please reply with comments, questions, recommendations, offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....





_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Weber, Dave

2008-03-04

Two things to consider about finishes:
1. Width of finishing road way and whether all road is available for sprint finish
2. Likelihood of a sprint finish.

BB has a narrow road - not real compatible with bunch sprints.

BB has a hilly profile so fields can break into smaller groups.

I was with the lead group accelerating to a sprint finish when centerline and shoulder width compressed a high speed group into a major crash a few years ago.

The organizer and officials needs for safety and results picking need to be big considerations.
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

----- Original Message -----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue Mar 04 09:21:06 2008
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

I'm not suggesting that all finishes be uphill. BB2 is traditionally an uphill finish. It would be nice if that would continue to be the case despite the course direction change.

Jeff, Can you clarify your intentions for the BB2 finish please?

-Rob Anderson

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Rick C Johnson wrote:

Exactly. We have a whole season of up hill finishes ahead or us.
Remember, sprinters are racers too and also deserve a good finish now
and again.

Rick

Joe Cipale wrote:

>Stmt #1 - Bicyle racing is dangerous.
>Stmt #2 - OBRA does the best job of any organization of putting the safety of the riders at the top of the list.
>Stmt #3 - Crashes happen, regardless of the type of finsh. Usually from rider inexperience and/or inattentiveness.
>
>Joe
>
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Robert Anderson

2008-03-04

I'm not suggesting that all finishes be uphill. BB2 is traditionally an
uphill finish. It would be nice if that would continue to be the case
despite the course direction change.

Jeff, Can you clarify your intentions for the BB2 finish please?

-Rob Anderson

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Rick C Johnson
wrote:

> Exactly. We have a whole season of up hill finishes ahead or us.
> Remember, sprinters are racers too and also deserve a good finish now
> and again.
>
> Rick
>
> Joe Cipale wrote:
>
> >Stmt #1 - Bicyle racing is dangerous.
> >Stmt #2 - OBRA does the best job of any organization of putting the
> safety of the riders at the top of the list.
> >Stmt #3 - Crashes happen, regardless of the type of finsh. Usually from
> rider inexperience and/or inattentiveness.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
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Rick C Johnson

2008-03-04

Exactly. We have a whole season of up hill finishes ahead or us.
Remember, sprinters are racers too and also deserve a good finish now
and again.

Rick

Joe Cipale wrote:

>Stmt #1 - Bicyle racing is dangerous.
>Stmt #2 - OBRA does the best job of any organization of putting the safety of the riders at the top of the list.
>Stmt #3 - Crashes happen, regardless of the type of finsh. Usually from rider inexperience and/or inattentiveness.
>
>Joe
>


Joe Cipale

2008-03-04

r r wrote:

> I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and true competi=
> tion.
> =20
> I've been racing the BB's for years, and have seen some (possible understat=
> ement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced out and even life-flighted) occ=
> ur because of this downhill finish in the dip that the line is in. Being in=
> the dip provides just too much speed for the close quarter chaos of the wh=
> ole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less experience fields.=20
> =20
> Didn't Silverton last year teach us any lesson at all about downhill finish=
> es and safety issues in the peloton at the finish. How many more tragic acc=
> idents need to occur before changes are made, in not just the BB's but ever=
> y race that has a sprint heading downhill to the line. Yes, there was no cr=
> ash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or fault line, its only a mat=
> ter of time till another horrible one happens again. Lets make it a more sa=
> fe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will truly prevail (which=
> is that not the point of competition; that the stronger and/or more talent=
> ed athlete prevails). At the BB's, there is optimal scenarios for a finish =
> line, with plenty of wide spots in the shoulder to accommodate the van/tent=
> /camera. It will just mean you may have to ride a WHOLE mile back to the lo=
> t instead.=20
> =20
> Safety should be of the up most importance in a bicycle race.V
>
>

Stmt #1 - Bicyle racing is dangerous.
Stmt #2 - OBRA does the best job of any organization of putting the safety of the riders at the top of the list.
Stmt #3 - Crashes happen, regardless of the type of finsh. Usually from rider inexperience and/or inattentiveness.

Joe


J.Michael Manning

2008-03-03

Dan,
I thought it and you said it. Thanks for a little truth about
the nature of our sport. We all should be proud of the fact that we
represent a sport that requires balls to succeed. Be brave...be bold!
Mike Manning

From: dan@bicyclerepairman.us
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; jeff.mitchem@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:25:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

"v",
Races need all kinds of finishes. Up, down and flat. Each
type of finish will favor a particular style.
If you want safety, stay in bed. If this race is over your
head, stay home. If bunch sprinting is not your thing, that's going to limit
your choice of races a lot. Spokes, pedals, derailleurs, bridges, curbs,
potholes, gravel, dogs, cars, drunks and riders with faulty equipment are only a
few of the hazards I can think of off hand when one chooses to race a
bicycle.
Speed doesn't cause crashes, riding sideways
does.
Try learning to sprint on rollers. It will greatly improve
your chances of survival.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From:
r r
To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:49
PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt
Updates

I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and
true competition.

I've been racing the BB's for years, and have
seen some (possible understatement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced
out and even life-flighted) occur because of this downhill finish in the dip
that the line is in. Being in the dip provides just too much speed for the
close quarter chaos of the whole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less
experience fields.

Didn't Silverton last year teach us any
lesson at all about downhill finishes and safety issues in the peloton at the
finish. How many more tragic accidents need to occur before changes are made,
in not just the BB's but every race that has a sprint heading downhill to the
line. Yes, there was no crash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or
fault line, its only a matter of time till another horrible one happens again.
Lets make it a more safe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will
truly prevail (which is that not the point of competition; that
the stronger and/or more talented athlete prevails). At the BB's, there
is optimal scenarios for a finish line, with plenty of wide spots in the
shoulder to accommodate the van/tent/camera. It will just mean you may have to
ride a WHOLE mile back to the lot instead.

Safety should be of
the up most importance in a bicycle race.

V


Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0800
From:
riznob@gmail.com
To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
CC:
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt
Updates

Can we at least move the finnish to a hill? Pretty
please.

-Rob Anderson

2008/3/3 Jeff Mitchem :


Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an
awesome BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

- Pre-Registered Riders. NO LONG LINE next race. All you
need to do is check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper
work, no exchange of $, this will be a verbal check that you are present
on race day.

- Un-registered Riders. We will have extra registration
staff on hand with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as
long.

- Course Direction. Due to really bad road conditions
in the outer lane we will maintain course direction and not reverse
direction as advertised in the flyer.

- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot Cash. Thank
you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all cash money
for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken
and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find
out, they have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next
week....

- Volunteers. Please confirm by replying to this email if
you are interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are
racing and when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB
entry or 2 free PIRs + parking fee.

- Field Size. When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So,
be aware that all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be
combined with other fields.

- Comments Welcome. Please reply with comments, questions,
recommendations, offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....






_______________________________________________
OBRA
mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com


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list
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Unsubscribe:
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Harry Phinney

2008-03-03

I don't mind some proportion of races having uphill finishes, but there's
certainly no reason that all races should be that way. I'm willing to bet
that I've raced "BBs" for more years than you, and have been personally
involved (i.e. knocked out, literally twitching in the ditch) in a "god
awful" crash on the older Champoeg Park course. There is nothing less "true"
about the competition involved in a fast sprint when compared to an uphill
finish. Sprinting and generally riding at high speeds is part of racing. Do
you really believe that prevailing in a fast sprint does not require
strength and/or talent? If you're really stronger and more talented than the
fast sprinters, then I suggest you drop them before the finish.

Harry Phinney

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of r r
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:49 PM
To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
Importance: High

I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and true
competition.

I've been racing the BB's for years, and have seen some (possible
understatement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced out and even
life-flighted) occur because of this downhill finish in the dip that the
line is in. Being in the dip provides just too much speed for the close
quarter chaos of the whole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less
experience fields.

Didn't Silverton last year teach us any lesson at all about downhill
finishes and safety issues in the peloton at the finish. How many more
tragic accidents need to occur before changes are made, in not just the BB's
but every race that has a sprint heading downhill to the line. Yes, there
was no crash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or fault line, its
only a matter of time till another horrible one happens again. Lets make it
a more safe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will truly
prevail (which is that not the point of competition; that the stronger
and/or more talented athlete prevails). At the BB's, there is optimal
scenarios for a finish line, with plenty of wide spots in the shoulder to
accommodate the van/tent/camera. It will just mean you may have to ride a
WHOLE mile back to the lot instead.

Safety should be of the up most importance in a bicycle race.

V


Brian Ratliff

2008-03-03

No offense, but me being who I am, I'd be very sad if every finish in the
OBRA schedule was a slow uphill finish. Sprinters wouldn't have a place in
the schedule anymore.

2008/3/3 r r :

> I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and true
> competition.
>
> I've been racing the BB's for years, and have seen some (possible
> understatement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced out and even
> life-flighted) occur because of this downhill finish in the dip that the
> line is in. Being in the dip provides just too much speed for the close
> quarter chaos of the whole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less
> experience fields.
>
> Didn't Silverton last year teach us any lesson at all about downhill
> finishes and safety issues in the peloton at the finish. How many more
> tragic accidents need to occur before changes are made, in not just the BB's
> but every race that has a sprint heading downhill to the line. Yes, there
> was no crash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or fault line, its
> only a matter of time till another horrible one happens again. Lets make it
> a more safe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will truly
> prevail (which is that not the point of competition; that the stronger
> and/or more talented athlete prevails). At the BB's, there is optimal
> scenarios for a finish line, with plenty of wide spots in the shoulder to
> accommodate the van/tent/camera. It will just mean you may have to ride a
> WHOLE mile back to the lot instead.
>
> Safety should be of the up most importance in a bicycle race.
>
> V
>
>
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0800
> From: riznob@gmail.com
> To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates
>
> Can we at least move the finnish to a hill? Pretty please.
>
> -Rob Anderson
>
> 2008/3/3 Jeff Mitchem :
>
> Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome
> BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.
>
> *- Pre-Registered Riders*. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is
> check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of
> $, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.
>
> *- Un-registered Riders*. We will have extra registration staff on hand
> with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.
>
> *- Course Direction.* Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane
> we will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in
> the flyer.
>
> *- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot
> Cash.* Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all
> cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken
> and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they
> have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....
>
> *- Volunteers.* Please confirm by replying to this email if you are
> interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and
> when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free
> PIRs + parking fee.
>
> *- Field Size.* When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that
> all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with
> other fields.
>
> *- Comments Welcome.* Please reply with comments, questions,
> recommendations, offers, etc...
>
> stay tuned for more....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Anderson
> riznob@gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Dan H

2008-03-03

"v",
Races need all kinds of finishes. Up, down and flat. Each type of finish will favor a particular style.
If you want safety, stay in bed. If this race is over your head, stay home. If bunch sprinting is not your thing, that's going to limit your choice of races a lot. Spokes, pedals, derailleurs, bridges, curbs, potholes, gravel, dogs, cars, drunks and riders with faulty equipment are only a few of the hazards I can think of off hand when one chooses to race a bicycle.
Speed doesn't cause crashes, riding sideways does.
Try learning to sprint on rollers. It will greatly improve your chances of survival.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: r r
To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and true competition.

I've been racing the BB's for years, and have seen some (possible understatement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced out and even life-flighted) occur because of this downhill finish in the dip that the line is in. Being in the dip provides just too much speed for the close quarter chaos of the whole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less experience fields.

Didn't Silverton last year teach us any lesson at all about downhill finishes and safety issues in the peloton at the finish. How many more tragic accidents need to occur before changes are made, in not just the BB's but every race that has a sprint heading downhill to the line. Yes, there was no crash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or fault line, its only a matter of time till another horrible one happens again. Lets make it a more safe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will truly prevail (which is that not the point of competition; that the stronger and/or more talented athlete prevails). At the BB's, there is optimal scenarios for a finish line, with plenty of wide spots in the shoulder to accommodate the van/tent/camera. It will just mean you may have to ride a WHOLE mile back to the lot instead.

Safety should be of the up most importance in a bicycle race.

V

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0800
From: riznob@gmail.com
To: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

Can we at least move the finnish to a hill? Pretty please.

-Rob Anderson

2008/3/3 Jeff Mitchem :

Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

- Pre-Registered Riders. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of $, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.

- Un-registered Riders. We will have extra registration staff on hand with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.

- Course Direction. Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane we will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in the flyer.

- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot Cash. Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....

- Volunteers. Please confirm by replying to this email if you are interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free PIRs + parking fee.

- Field Size. When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with other fields.

- Comments Welcome. Please reply with comments, questions, recommendations, offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


I agree. An uphill finish would be better as far as safety and true competition.

I've been racing the BB's for years, and have seen some (possible understatement) god awful crashes (people ambulanced out and even life-flighted) occur because of this downhill finish in the dip that the line is in. Being in the dip provides just too much speed for the close quarter chaos of the whole pack trying to sprint. Especially in the less experience fields.

Didn't Silverton last year teach us any lesson at all about downhill finishes and safety issues in the peloton at the finish. How many more tragic accidents need to occur before changes are made, in not just the BB's but every race that has a sprint heading downhill to the line. Yes, there was no crash yesterday, but its like an active volcano or fault line, its only a matter of time till another horrible one happens again. Lets make it a more safe finish, and a finish where the stronger riders will truly prevail (which is that not the point of competition; that the stronger and/or more talented athlete prevails). At the BB's, there is optimal scenarios for a finish line, with plenty of wide spots in the shoulder to accommodate the van/tent/camera. It will just mean you may have to ride a WHOLE mile back to the lot instead.

Safety should be of the up most importance in a bicycle race.V

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0800From: riznob@gmail.comTo: jeff.mitchem@gmail.comCC: obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt UpdatesCan we at least move the finnish to a hill? Pretty please.-Rob Anderson
2008/3/3 Jeff Mitchem :

Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

- Pre-Registered Riders. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of $, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.

- Un-registered Riders. We will have extra registration staff on hand with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.

- Course Direction. Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane we will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in the flyer.

- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot Cash. Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....

- Volunteers. Please confirm by replying to this email if you are interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free PIRs + parking fee.

- Field Size. When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with other fields.

- Comments Welcome. Please reply with comments, questions, recommendations, offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....





_______________________________________________OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org-- Rob Andersonriznob@gmail.com
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Brian L

2008-03-03

No hot spot.

You mean you all weren't riding that fast the whole time? ;-)

-Brian List

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Haverty, Chris
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 4:51 PM
To: Jeff Mitchem; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Banana Belt Updates

Hi Jeff,

Thank you, the volounteers, the officials and the weather for the fantastic
race. I have just one comment/question.

It wasn't clear if there was a hot spot at BB#1 for the Cat 3's. It wasn't
mentioned during the start line announcements, and I am pretty sure there
was no bell. However, there was a lot of sprinting going on at the end of
lap 2. Was there a hot spot? Someone please chime in if I missed the
announcement and/or the bell.

Thanks,

Chris

Jeff Mitchem wrote:

Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome
BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

- Pre-Registered Riders. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is
check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of
$, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.

- Un-registered Riders. We will have extra registration staff on hand with
multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.

- Course Direction. Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane we
will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in
the flyer.

- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot
Cash. Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all
cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken and
?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they have
$100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....

- Volunteers. Please confirm by replying to this email if you are interested
in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and when, and
what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free PIRs +
parking fee.

- Field Size. When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that all
size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with other
fields.

- Comments Welcome. Please reply with comments, questions, recommendations,
offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo
your homepage.


Haverty, Chris

2008-03-03

Hi Jeff,

Thank you, the volounteers, the officials and the weather for the fantastic race. I have just one comment/question.

It wasn't clear if there was a hot spot at BB#1 for the Cat 3's. It wasn't mentioned during the start line announcements, and I am pretty sure there was no bell. However, there was a lot of sprinting going on at the end of lap 2. Was there a hot spot? Someone please chime in if I missed the announcement and/or the bell.


Thanks,
Chris

Jeff Mitchem wrote:
Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

- Pre-Registered Riders. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of $, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.

- Un-registered Riders. We will have extra registration staff on hand with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.

- Course Direction. Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane we will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in the flyer.

- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot Cash. Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....

- Volunteers. Please confirm by replying to this email if you are interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free PIRs + parking fee.

- Field Size. When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with other fields.

- Comments Welcome. Please reply with comments, questions, recommendations, offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....






_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


Robert Anderson

2008-03-03

Can we at least move the finnish to a hill? Pretty please.

-Rob Anderson

2008/3/3 Jeff Mitchem :

> Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome
> BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.
>
> *- Pre-Registered Riders*. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is
> check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of
> $, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.
>
> *- Un-registered Riders*. We will have extra registration staff on hand
> with multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.
>
> *- Course Direction.* Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane
> we will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in
> the flyer.
>
> *- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot
> Cash.* Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all
> cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken
> and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they
> have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....
>
> *- Volunteers.* Please confirm by replying to this email if you are
> interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and
> when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free
> PIRs + parking fee.
>
> *- Field Size.* When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that
> all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with
> other fields.
>
> *- Comments Welcome.* Please reply with comments, questions,
> recommendations, offers, etc...
>
> stay tuned for more....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com


Jeff Mitchem

2008-03-03

Thank you volunteers, thank you officials, thank you riders for an awesome
BB#1. Following are a few updates as we prepare for BB#2.

*- Pre-Registered Riders*. NO LONG LINE next race. All you need to do is
check-in at registration when you arrive.....no paper work, no exchange of
$, this will be a verbal check that you are present on race day.

*- Un-registered Riders*. We will have extra registration staff on hand with
multiple lines so you wont have to wait as long.

*- Course Direction.* Due to really bad road conditions in the outer lane we
will maintain course direction and not reverse direction as advertised in
the flyer.

*- Bicycleattornery.com Men 1/2 Hot Spot
Cash.* Thank you to the Bicycle Attorney for donating $200 winner-take-all
cash money for the Men 1/2 hot spots. BB#1 winners were Evan Elken
and ?....not sure yet who won the second hot spot but when I find out, they
have $100 coming. Look for more cash hot spots next week....

*- Volunteers.* Please confirm by replying to this email if you are
interested in volunteering for BB#2. I need to know if you are racing and
when, and what position you prefer. Compensation is free BB entry or 2 free
PIRs + parking fee.

*- Field Size.* When it comes to pelotons, SIZE MATTERS. So, be aware that
all size challenged pelotons (less than 6 riders) will be combined with
other fields.

*- Comments Welcome.* Please reply with comments, questions,
recommendations, offers, etc...

stay tuned for more....