Public Urination

Brian Ratliff

2014-09-15

Okay, I'm probably going to be hated on for this... but why don't we do the
venues some actual benefit so they feel our loss rather than having them
feel like they are doing us a favor and boot us out over a single rider out
of several hundred not making it to the porta-john?

Especially with cyclocross; you have several hundred riders, maybe a
thousand or more, and you have, what, 10 porta-johns? Someone's not going
to make it and take their chances pissing behind a dumpster or building.
This is just statistics. You aren't going to get 100% success on this
issue. I've been racing for 8 years now, and every year it's the same exact
thing.

Just a suggestion and not even a fully formed thought, but maybe offer a
refund of entry fee if you come back out to the venue the next day and do
community service around the venue; clean up, repair the grass, or just
pick up trash along the road or something like that. It'll be a de facto
advertisement for OBRA/racing, and we can actually help the local community
and maybe make some friends out there rather than have them see us as a
bother or a charity case.

Just some thoughts.

Brian

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:25 AM, wrote:

> Seth,
>
> This notice is posted on race flyers and on the registration page (AIR)
> so to claim ignorance is a poor argument at best and utter laziness in
> general. Especially when the Sani-Kans are close to the registration
> tables.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 2014-09-15 09:05, Seth May wrote:
>
>> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
>> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience
>> who know all the rules.
>>
>> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
>> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a
>> brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one
>> told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional
>> racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and
>> expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this
>> mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the
>> last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I
>> consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.
>>
>> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
>> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least
>> likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the
>> punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the
>> folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.
>>
>> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
>> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
>> question to ask.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Seth
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
>> To: 'OBRA'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
>> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered
>> a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already
>> laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>>
>> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was
>> really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few
>> people were just plain stupid.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
>> To: mohair
>> Cc: OBRA
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea!
>> We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>>
>>
>> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
>> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or
>> in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that
>> look great on your resume?
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Seth May

2014-09-15

Joe, All,
The vast majority of the races that happen in OBRA do not mention urination on their race flyers, nor is it a requirement they do so. Even when it is on a flyer, small print is small print.

Think about this from the prospective of a 20 year old, invincible, young man, whose arriving to do their first race.
- First, they may not know that public urination is criminal. (I certainly didn't at that age)
- Second, they haven't seen rules or a rule book, because why would they?
- Third, they are just plain full of nervous excitement for doing their first race and are likely over-hydrated to begin with

This is the person (among many), that we need to clearly communicate too.

Ignorance may not be an excuse, but I would much rather find ways to effectively educate and inform than to punish and ostracize folks from our community.

Thanks
Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of joec@aracnet.com
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:25 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

Seth,

This notice is posted on race flyers and on the registration page (AIR) so to claim ignorance is a poor argument at best and utter laziness in general. Especially when the Sani-Kans are close to the registration tables.

Joe

On 2014-09-15 09:05, Seth May wrote:
> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience
> who know all the rules.
>
> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a
> brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one
> told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional
> racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and
> expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this
> mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the
> last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I
> consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.
>
> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least
> likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the
> punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the
> folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.
>
> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
> question to ask.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David
> Rosen
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
> To: 'OBRA'
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered
> a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already
> laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>
> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was
> really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few
> people were just plain stupid.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: mohair
> Cc: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea!
> We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>
>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or
> in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that
> look great on your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


jo..@aracnet.com

2014-09-15

Seth,

This notice is posted on race flyers and on the registration page (AIR)
so to claim ignorance is a poor argument at best and utter laziness in
general. Especially when the Sani-Kans are close to the registration
tables.

Joe

On 2014-09-15 09:05, Seth May wrote:
> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience
> who know all the rules.
>
> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a
> brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one
> told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional
> racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and
> expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this
> mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the
> last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I
> consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.
>
> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least
> likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the
> punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the
> folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.
>
> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
> question to ask.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
> To: 'OBRA'
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered
> a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already
> laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>
> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was
> really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few
> people were just plain stupid.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: mohair
> Cc: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea!
> We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>
>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or
> in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that
> look great on your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Brett Boyles

2014-09-15

Why put on a urination festival. Just go to France. When I rode in L’Etape du Tour they had 8000 riders and no bathrooms!

From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 9:48 AM
To: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

Maybe we're approaching this all wrong.

Perhaps instead of targeting the tinklers, we should start a grassroots urine is okay awareness campaign. In the off season, we could spend our non-racing weekends holding public urination festivals, inviting the local communities to participate.
Thoughts?

- Erik

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Seth May > wrote:
I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience who know all the rules.

When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.

Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.

How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main question to ask.

Thanks
Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
To: 'OBRA'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert, because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.

Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just plain stupid.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
To: mohair
Cc: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.

On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair > wrote:

>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2014-09-15

Seth,
That is an excellent point and well articulated.
Those most committed to stemming this behavior would do well to consider
it above punitive measures.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

On 9/15/2014 9:05 AM, Seth May wrote:
> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience who know all the rules.
>
> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.
>
> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.
>
> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main question to ask.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
> To: 'OBRA'
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert, because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>
> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just plain stupid.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: mohair
> Cc: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>
>> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on your resume?
>> ----
>>
>> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


craig austin

2014-09-15

I'm amazed there isn't already such a campaign/advocate group in Portland
for this.

Craig

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Erik Voldengen wrote:

> Maybe we're approaching this all wrong.
>
> Perhaps instead of targeting the tinklers, we should start a grassroots
> urine is okay awareness campaign. In the off season, we could spend our
> non-racing weekends holding public urination festivals, inviting the local
> communities to participate.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Erik
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Seth May wrote:
>
>> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
>> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience who
>> know all the rules.
>>
>> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
>> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a brick in
>> the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one told me about
>> it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional racers are quite
>> likely to not have the exposure to our rules and expectations that we think
>> they need. They certainly are not on this mailing list, and haven't seen
>> this discussion 5 times a year for the last N years. After 15 years of
>> racing and 12 years of officiating, I consider myself fairly well informed,
>> but I didn't start that way.
>>
>> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
>> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least likely to
>> reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the punishment more
>> harsh will not change the rate of violation if the folks infringing haven't
>> heard the message to begin with.
>>
>> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
>> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
>> question to ask.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Seth
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
>> To: 'OBRA'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
>> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a
>> felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in
>> place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>>
>> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really
>> fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just
>> plain stupid.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
>> To: mohair
>> Cc: OBRA
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We
>> should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
>> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in
>> the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look
>> great on your resume?
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Jordan Slone

2014-09-15

Piss Bucket Challenge?!?!?!

Jordan Slone
Executive Chef
Bon Appetit Management Company
Cell: (971)-276-7395
Work E-Mail: jordanx.slone@intel.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Erik Voldengen wrote:

> Maybe we're approaching this all wrong.
>
> Perhaps instead of targeting the tinklers, we should start a grassroots
> urine is okay awareness campaign. In the off season, we could spend our
> non-racing weekends holding public urination festivals, inviting the local
> communities to participate.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Erik
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Seth May wrote:
>
>> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
>> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience who
>> know all the rules.
>>
>> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
>> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a brick in
>> the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one told me about
>> it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional racers are quite
>> likely to not have the exposure to our rules and expectations that we think
>> they need. They certainly are not on this mailing list, and haven't seen
>> this discussion 5 times a year for the last N years. After 15 years of
>> racing and 12 years of officiating, I consider myself fairly well informed,
>> but I didn't start that way.
>>
>> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
>> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least likely to
>> reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the punishment more
>> harsh will not change the rate of violation if the folks infringing haven't
>> heard the message to begin with.
>>
>> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
>> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
>> question to ask.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Seth
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
>> To: 'OBRA'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
>> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a
>> felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in
>> place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>>
>> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really
>> fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just
>> plain stupid.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
>> To: mohair
>> Cc: OBRA
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We
>> should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
>> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in
>> the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look
>> great on your resume?
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Jeff Lorenzen

2014-09-15

As the promoter of this weekend's cross races, I'm going to put my two
cents in. I felt like the OBRA officials on site handled the issue
well. Riders were DQ'd/not allowed to start, and one offered to make
a public apology. I received an apology phone call this morning from
another rider. The biggest bummer for me was that some of the
incidents were reported by the general public, not other racers.
That's the kind of "notice" we don't need.

I appreciate the calls for drastic action, but, only speaking for my
venue, what would really be appreciated would be a note or email of
thanks from the 99.9% of riders who, for the past 13 years at HRVHS,
have not committed any lapse of judgment. If you have enjoyed our
years of racing at HRVHS (and the full gamut of venues, from David
Douglas Park to PIR), why not drop a note or email of thanks to the
owners/managers of the property. I could not ask for more support
from the principal, athletic director, and groundskeeper from HRVHS.
While not excusing the incidents, some notes of gratitude might go a
long way in allowing the property managers to overlook some poor
judgment by a very small group of racers.

To make it easy, here are the email addresses of the principal,
athletic director, and groundskeeper at HRVHS:

Principal Rich Polkinghorn: rich.polkinghorn@hoodriver.k12.or.us
Athletic Director Keith Bassham: keith.bassham@hoodriver.k12.or.us
Groundskeeper Wynn Winfield: wynn.winfield@hoodriver.k12.or.us

As always, many thanks to all of your who came out to Hood River and
made the 2014 Double Cross such a cool event. We had a great weekend
and beautiful weather, and I sincerely hope everyone had a great time!

On to the rest of the season!

Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 6:52 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Russell Mantifel

2014-09-15

I think this is the perfect forum to figure this kind of stuff out.

On Monday, September 15, 2014, Tom Orth wrote:

> Public urination in some places is considered a "sex offense". As a sex
> offense, those with a conviction are registered sex offenders. At that
> point, you are indistinguishable, on the list anyway, from a pedophile.
> Queue protesters outside your house.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:56 PM, mohair > wrote:
>
>>
>> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
>> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in
>> the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look
>> great on your resume?
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>


David Luoma

2014-09-15

Hopefully no one at the venue wants to press charges. Something to think about other than being suspended from a race or OBRA.

Urinating in public is illegal in every state. Defendants may be charged under a law that specifically criminalizes the act, or the prosecutor may allege that the defendant presented a public nuisance or is guilty of disorderly conduct. A harsher approach is to charge defendants with indecent exposure or public lewdness, which are crimes that may require convicted defendants to register as a sex offender.


Erik Voldengen

2014-09-15

Maybe we're approaching this all wrong.

Perhaps instead of targeting the tinklers, we should start a grassroots
urine is okay awareness campaign. In the off season, we could spend our
non-racing weekends holding public urination festivals, inviting the local
communities to participate.

Thoughts?

- Erik

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Seth May wrote:

> I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone
> showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience who
> know all the rules.
>
> When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a
> brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a brick in
> the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one told me about
> it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional racers are quite
> likely to not have the exposure to our rules and expectations that we think
> they need. They certainly are not on this mailing list, and haven't seen
> this discussion 5 times a year for the last N years. After 15 years of
> racing and 12 years of officiating, I consider myself fairly well informed,
> but I didn't start that way.
>
> Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential
> impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least likely to
> reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the punishment more
> harsh will not change the rate of violation if the folks infringing haven't
> heard the message to begin with.
>
> How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the
> constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main
> question to ask.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
> To: 'OBRA'
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert,
> because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a
> felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in
> place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.
>
> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really
> fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just
> plain stupid.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: mohair
> Cc: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We
> should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>
> >
> > This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in
> the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look
> great on your resume?
> >
> > ----
> >
> > Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


jo..@aracnet.com

2014-09-15

#4 should read:
a) six (6) month suspension for the first offense
b) twelve (12) month suspension for the 2nd offense
c) Lifetime ban for the 3rd offense.

Some may argue 'why three chances?'. I am open to removing the 2md
offense and going straight to
the lifetime ban.

Joe

On 2014-09-14 21:12, Heather VanValkenburg wrote:

> 1. Suspension
> 2. A large fine, which must be paid to the venue owner. $100 should cover it.
> 3. A public apology to our community and to the venue owner.
> 4. Suspension lifted once these two occur.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:40 PM, wrote:
>
> I disagree about sponsors being notified. We as a sport have a hard enough time keeping sponsors, so if rider A got nailed for peeing on a tree, I don't think it should potentially impact the rest of his team based on his screw up. Punish him right, left, and sideways, and contact his team manager, not the sponsors.
>
> Jon
>
> -------------------------
>
> FROM: "Sarah Tisdale"
> TO: "Jeff Tedder"
> CC: "obra"
> SENT: Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
> SUBJECT: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder wrote:
>
> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....
>
> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From : Mike Murray
> To : remailer, OBRA;
> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [1]
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [1]
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [1]
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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--
-Heather VanValkenburg
"If you want to achieve triumph, you have to try a little umph!"
-unknown

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Tom Orth

2014-09-15

Public urination in some places is considered a "sex offense". As a sex
offense, those with a conviction are registered sex offenders. At that
point, you are indistinguishable, on the list anyway, from a pedophile.
Queue protesters outside your house.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:

>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in
> the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look
> great on your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Seth May

2014-09-15

I would like to remind everyone calling for hangings that not everyone showing up to our races are long time racers with lots of experience who know all the rules.

When I started racing, it was because a friend of mine (now a brother-in-law) encouraged me to do it. I didn't know OBRA from a brick in the wall. I didn't even know there was a rule book. No one told me about it. It's all very passive. Young, new, or occasional racers are quite likely to not have the exposure to our rules and expectations that we think they need. They certainly are not on this mailing list, and haven't seen this discussion 5 times a year for the last N years. After 15 years of racing and 12 years of officiating, I consider myself fairly well informed, but I didn't start that way.

Does it affect the whole community? Absolutely, with major potential impacts. That said, the message we're trying to get out is least likely to reach the audience that most needs to hear it. Making the punishment more harsh will not change the rate of violation if the folks infringing haven't heard the message to begin with.

How do we effectively communicate our most important messages to the constant stream of new and occasional races? I think that is the main question to ask.

Thanks
Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:57 AM
To: 'OBRA'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert, because this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a felony crime for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in place that don't take this stuff lightly to begin with.

Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just plain stupid.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
To: mohair
Cc: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.

On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:

>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Michael Medina

2014-09-15

I thought Oregon required some sort of sexual context/gratification for nudity to be considered indecent. 

Michael

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:23 AM, David Rosen wrote:

> In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert, because
> this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a felony crime
> for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in place that don't
> take this stuff lightly to begin with.
> Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really
> fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just
> plain stupid.
> Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: mohair
> Cc: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
> Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We
> should also make sure they spend the night in jail.
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:
>>
>> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
> involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the
> vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on
> your resume?
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


David Rosen

2014-09-15

In the scenario that this is playing out, and I am no legal expert, because
this happened on school grounds, would this not be considered a felony crime
for indecent exposure? I thought there were already laws in place that don't
take this stuff lightly to begin with.

Those were some great courses over the weekend and the racing was really
fun. I would really hate to lose that venue because a few people were just
plain stupid.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mistr Solo
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:12 PM
To: mohair
Cc: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We
should also make sure they spend the night in jail.

On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:

>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police
involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the
vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on
your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mistr Solo

2014-09-15

Awesome, then the rider is labeled as a sex offender. Brilliant idea! We should also make sure they spend the night in jail.

On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:56 PM, mohair wrote:

>
> This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on your resume?
>
> ----
>
> Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Splinter Wrenn

2014-09-15

Jordan's note is a good start. I might even add turning information on the offending rider over to law enforcement. When an incident of this type happens on school property it constitutes a sex crime and a rider with a record as a sex offender might get more attention than the inconvenience of a suspension.

Splinter Wrenn

"A day without laughter is a day wasted." ��� Charlie Chaplin

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 6:52 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Zachary Goude

2014-09-15

How does this even happen? I learned to pee in the toilet like when I was
super young. I don't understand.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Sarah Tisdale
wrote:

> A lighter touch might be to publish the rider & team name in the results
> as "DQ for public urination".
>
> I don't see any such DQ listings in the HR double CX results.
>
> It would be a public shaming, but not actively contacting the sponsor.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:40 PM, wrote:
>
>> I disagree about sponsors being notified. We as a sport have a hard
>> enough time keeping sponsors, so if rider A got nailed for peeing on a
>> tree, I don't think it should potentially impact the rest of his team based
>> on his screw up. Punish him right, left, and sideways, and contact his
>> team manager, not the sponsors.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Sarah Tisdale"
>> *To: *"Jeff Tedder"
>> *Cc: *"obra"
>> *Sent: *Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder <
>> sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in
>>> OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse
>>> for this.....
>>>
>>>
>>> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>
>>> From : Mike Murray
>>> To : remailer, OBRA;
>>> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
>>> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
>>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


WE SHOULD CUT THEIR WIENERS OFF.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 6:52 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 9:04 PM, Sarah Tisdale wrote:
>
> A lighter touch might be to publish the rider & team name in the results as "DQ for public urination".
>
> I don't see any such DQ listings in the HR double CX results.
>
> It would be a public shaming, but not actively contacting the sponsor.
>
>
>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:40 PM, wrote:
>> I disagree about sponsors being notified. We as a sport have a hard enough time keeping sponsors, so if rider A got nailed for peeing on a tree, I don't think it should potentially impact the rest of his team based on his screw up. Punish him right, left, and sideways, and contact his team manager, not the sponsors.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> From: "Sarah Tisdale"
>> To: "Jeff Tedder"
>> Cc: "obra"
>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.
>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder wrote:
>>> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>
>>> From : Mike Murray
>>> To : remailer, OBRA;
>>> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
>>> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>>
>>>
>>> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
>>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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Heather VanValkenburg

2014-09-15

1. Suspension
2. A large fine, which must be paid to the venue owner. $100 should cover
it.
3. A public apology to our community and to the venue owner.
4. Suspension lifted once these two occur.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:40 PM, wrote:

> I disagree about sponsors being notified. We as a sport have a hard
> enough time keeping sponsors, so if rider A got nailed for peeing on a
> tree, I don't think it should potentially impact the rest of his team based
> on his screw up. Punish him right, left, and sideways, and contact his
> team manager, not the sponsors.
>
> Jon
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Sarah Tisdale"
> *To: *"Jeff Tedder"
> *Cc: *"obra"
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder <
> sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in
>> OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse
>> for this.....
>>
>>
>> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>>
>> From : Mike Murray
>> To : remailer, OBRA;
>> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
>> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>>
>>
>> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

--
-Heather VanValkenburg
"If you want to achieve triumph, you have to try a little umph!" -unknown


Sarah Tisdale

2014-09-15

A lighter touch might be to publish the rider & team name in the results as
"DQ for public urination".

I don't see any such DQ listings in the HR double CX results.

It would be a public shaming, but not actively contacting the sponsor.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:40 PM, wrote:

> I disagree about sponsors being notified. We as a sport have a hard
> enough time keeping sponsors, so if rider A got nailed for peeing on a
> tree, I don't think it should potentially impact the rest of his team based
> on his screw up. Punish him right, left, and sideways, and contact his
> team manager, not the sponsors.
>
> Jon
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Sarah Tisdale"
> *To: *"Jeff Tedder"
> *Cc: *"obra"
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder <
> sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in
>> OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse
>> for this.....
>>
>>
>> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>>
>> From : Mike Murray
>> To : remailer, OBRA;
>> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
>> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>>
>>
>> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Sasha Lacey

2014-09-15

I agree with Mike Murray’s personal opinion on this topic (though would stop short of allowing anyone from peeing on my shoes) but this is something that jeopardizes promoter’s ability to put on races. A 6 or 12 month ban from OBRA racing might be appropriate.

From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Tom Orth
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:14 PM
To: Mistr Solo
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

The punishment for OBRA is that we are all banned from venues. Banning one or two riders instead all of us being banned seems appropriate.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 14, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Mistr Solo wrote:

I agree that public urination shouldn't be tolerated. But, banned from racing in OBRA seems like a bit harsh of a sentence.

On Sep 14, 2014, at 19:18, "Jeff Tedder" wrote:

Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....

>From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

------ Original Message ------

>From : Mike Murray
To : remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination

At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
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mohair

2014-09-15

This has gone on forever and the solution is simple: Get the police involved. Public urination can be "upgraded" to indecent exposure or in the vernacular, "weenie wagging" which is morals bust. Won't that look great on your resume?

----

Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is refusing to learn.


Dan H

2014-09-15

First we stab him, then we hang him, and then we kill him!

From: Tom Orth
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:13 PM
To: Mistr Solo
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

The punishment for OBRA is that we are all banned from venues. Banning one or two riders instead all of us being banned seems appropriate.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 14, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Mistr Solo wrote:

I agree that public urination shouldn't be tolerated. But, banned from racing in OBRA seems like a bit harsh of a sentence.

On Sep 14, 2014, at 19:18, "Jeff Tedder" wrote:

Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....

From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

------ Original Message ------

From : Mike Murray
To : remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination

At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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jon.ragsda..@comcast.net

2014-09-15

I disagree about sponsors being notified. We as a sport have a hard enough time keeping sponsors, so if rider A got nailed for peeing on a tree, I don't think it should potentially impact the rest of his team based on his screw up. Punish him right, left, and sideways, and contact his team manager, not the sponsors.

Jon

----- Original Message -----

From: "Sarah Tisdale"
To: "Jeff Tedder"
Cc: "obra"
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder < sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com > wrote:

Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....

>From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

------ Original Message ------


>From : Mike Murray
To : remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination

At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents.  One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start.  If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift.  Come on people!  Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
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Melanie Rathe

2014-09-15

For what it's worth.... I know both of these riders personally and will be having a discussion with them. :(

----- Original Message -----

From: "Sarah Tisdale"
To: "Jeff Tedder"
Cc: "OBRA List"
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:03:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination

If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder < sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com > wrote:

Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....

>From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

------ Original Message ------


>From : Mike Murray
To : remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination

At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents.  One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start.  If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift.  Come on people!  Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
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Tom Orth

2014-09-15

The punishment for OBRA is that we are all banned from venues. Banning one or two riders instead all of us being banned seems appropriate.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 14, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Mistr Solo wrote:

> I agree that public urination shouldn't be tolerated. But, banned from racing in OBRA seems like a bit harsh of a sentence.
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 19:18, "Jeff Tedder" wrote:
>
>> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....
>>
>>
>>
>> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>>
>> From : Mike Murray
>> To : remailer, OBRA;
>> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
>> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>>
>> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2014-09-15

Yes Sarah....and then booted off the team.....

 

From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.





------ Original Message ------


From : Sarah Tisdale
To : Jeff Tedder;
Cc : Mike Murray;remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 8:04 PM
Subject : Re: [OBRA Chat] Public urination
 

If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.




On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder <sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this......


 

From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.





------ Original Message ------


From : Mike Murray
To : remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination


 
At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents.  One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start.  If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift.  Come on people!  Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent. 

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
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Sarah Tisdale

2014-09-15

If they're on a team, their team sponsors should be notified.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jeff Tedder
wrote:

> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in
> OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse
> for this.....
>
>
> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From : Mike Murray
> To : remailer, OBRA;
> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
>
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Steve Westberg

2014-09-15

12 month suspension maybe? People seem to keep doing it even when reminded about losing race venues.


Mistr Solo

2014-09-15

I agree that public urination shouldn't be tolerated. But, banned from racing in OBRA seems like a bit harsh of a sentence.

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 19:18, "Jeff Tedder" wrote:
>
> Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....
>
>
>
> From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From : Mike Murray
> To : remailer, OBRA;
> Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
> Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Jeff Tedder

2014-09-15

Idiots....My opinion is they all should be banned from racing in OBRA....There is no grey area...Its black and white.....There is NO excuse for this.....

 

From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.





------ Original Message ------


From : Mike Murray
To : remailer, OBRA;
Sent : 9/14/2014 7:09 PM
Subject : [OBRA Chat] Public urination
 
At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents.  One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start.  If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift.  Come on people!  Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent. 

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
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Chris

2014-09-15

And ditto ---- to the person who stole my cycling cap from the start line! Poor behaviors are an embarrassment to our community. To whoever stole my cap, I would like it back. Black cap with white stripes (Planet X brand).

Chris Brannen

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 6:52 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
> At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mike Murray

2014-09-15

At the risk of starting yet another public urination thread I have to point out that there were several incidents of public urination at this weekend's cross race. This occurred despite there being sufficient and convenient portable toilets. The event was held on the grounds of a school making this even more likely to endanger access to the venue. Incidents were reported by non-racing members of the public. There were at least 2 DQs issued for these incidents. One of the riders had the chutzpah to ask for, and receive, a refund of his entry fee after not being allowed to start. If he has any decency he will be sending that money back to the race organizer along with an apology and nice gift. Come on people! Personally I care little even if you pee on my shoes but the greater public sees this as a major offense and a reason to deny access to a venue. If for that reason alone make the minimal effort to use the facilities that the race organizers pay a large amount to rent.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry


John Benenate

2014-03-22

We the public, make up this great nation, every one of us.
I'm a nation, and your a nation.
Even in public your a nation.

On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:29 PM, mohair wrote:

>
>  It's not theoretical: public urination is why we no longer have Cake to go with our Pie.
>

This topic comes up with predictable regularity.  Canceling a bike race is one thing, but the authorities can come down even harder if they so desire.  Years ago, I watched a kid take a bust for public urination and indecent exposure.  He had been caught pissing on the wall of a tavern.  For whatever reasons, he pleaded guilty.  From that point on, he had a "jacket" that included indecent exposure which is a sex offender rap.  Try explaining that to a potential employer.

If someone is taking a public leak at a bike race, watching him get put in a police car wearing cuffs might get the message across.  But then again, maybe not.

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mohair

2014-03-21

>
> It's not theoretical: public urination is why we no longer have Cake to go with our Pie.
>

This topic comes up with predictable regularity. Canceling a bike race is one thing, but the authorities can come down even harder if they so desire. Years ago, I watched a kid take a bust for public urination and indecent exposure. He had been caught pissing on the wall of a tavern. For whatever reasons, he pleaded guilty. From that point on, he had a "jacket" that included indecent exposure which is a sex offender rap. Try explaining that to a potential employer.

If someone is taking a public leak at a bike race, watching him get put in a police car wearing cuffs might get the message across. But then again, maybe not.


Feel free to pee on the lawn at the Wattage Cottage. We do it all the time.
No deucing, though.


I don't race but it seems as if the race was just shy of 17.5 miles? Most
of the racer types roll at 16-18mph avg? throw a Port-o-Potty every 4-5
miles down road. Leaves the option of a spot to pee every 13-17 minutes?
That way in place of them all being at the start line they are throughout
the entire race?

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Josh LeBus wrote:

> I had to pee from about mile 20 on.. Maybe too hydrated?? But I held it
> figuring I would self absorb.
>
> Never thought for a second to pull aside to relieve but it wasnt because i
> considered the majority of the course to be overly populated.
>
> Dense population vs not.. Either way it's urination in public. I would
> simply argue that some communities, law force aside, are tolerant of
> certain things especially if they are supportive of the event, i.e,
> t.o.c...,
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Kevin wrote:
>
> The POC does not go for so long that a racer could not take care of
> business in the provided facilities prior to the race and be fine for the
> duration. My inclination is to ban the guilty from participation for a
> full year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination
> From :Josh LeBus **
> Date :Sun, 08-Apr-2012 20:48
> To :Scott Jones **
> CC :"obra@list.obra.org" **,Dan Mahoney **
>
> Out of curiosity where does the pro peloton pee at Amgen Tour of
> California? Primarily while racing?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:14 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> The local woman who witnessed this yesterday told race promoters and
> officials within minutes of the action. Not the first year that this type
> of behavior has happened and local residents were already pretty upset
> before this action took place. The loss of the venue, which benefits the
> local school, would be a huge loss to racers and those in the school.
>
> The riders in question were visible to a driver and racers, in full team
> kit, peeing on a tractor on private property. This does not mean you find a
> secluded place to urinate, it means you use the proto-potties that were
> easily accessible!
>
> -Scott
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>
>> If a race promoter asks you to not drive a red car to the race because it
>> endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>>
>> If a race promoter asks you to not walk in the flower beds because it
>> endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>>
>> If a race promoter asks you to not pee anywhere but the provided
>> porto-o-poties because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just
>> don't do.
>>
>> If you do it, you shouldn't be allowed to race. Fairly simple.
>> On Apr 8, 2012 3:41 PM, "Dan Mahoney" wrote:
>>
>>> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow
>>> cyclists. Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in
>>> public for some reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly
>>> have. Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the
>>> time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to
>>> the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential
>>> part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the
>>> professional ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first
>>> hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is
>>> so quick to turn on its very own.
>>>
>>> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders"
>>> decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little
>>> kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my
>>> stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And
>>> we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the
>>> urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will
>>> evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to
>>> locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>>>
>>> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing
>>> experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror!
>>> Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but
>>> boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't
>>> much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it
>>> myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all
>>> the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his
>>> hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main
>>> Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I
>>> apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all
>>> caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the
>>> biological necessities of our existence.
>>>
>>> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to
>>> our tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us
>>> riding on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature
>>> on bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating!
>>> Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience,
>>> and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with
>>> the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go.
>>> Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high
>>> horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA
>>> officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in
>>> public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon
>>> our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>>>
>>> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ********
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Josh LeBus

2012-04-09

I had to pee from about mile 20 on.. Maybe too hydrated?? But I held it figuring I would self absorb.

Never thought for a second to pull aside to relieve but it wasnt because i considered the majority of the course to be overly populated.

Dense population vs not.. Either way it's urination in public. I would simply argue that some communities, law force aside, are tolerant of certain things especially if they are supportive of the event, i.e, t.o.c...,

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Kevin wrote:

> The POC does not go for so long that a racer could not take care of business in the provided facilities prior to the race and be fine for the duration. My inclination is to ban the guilty from participation for a full year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination
> From :Josh LeBus
> Date :Sun, 08-Apr-2012 20:48
> To :Scott Jones
> CC :"obra@list.obra.org" ,Dan Mahoney
>
> Out of curiosity where does the pro peloton pee at Amgen Tour of California? Primarily while racing?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:14 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>
>> Dan,
>>
>> The local woman who witnessed this yesterday told race promoters and officials within minutes of the action. Not the first year that this type of behavior has happened and local residents were already pretty upset before this action took place. The loss of the venue, which benefits the local school, would be a huge loss to racers and those in the school.
>>
>> The riders in question were visible to a driver and racers, in full team kit, peeing on a tractor on private property. This does not mean you find a secluded place to urinate, it means you use the proto-potties that were easily accessible!
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>> If a race promoter asks you to not drive a red car to the race because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>>
>> If a race promoter asks you to not walk in the flower beds because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>>
>> If a race promoter asks you to not pee anywhere but the provided porto-o-poties because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do.
>>
>> If you do it, you shouldn't be allowed to race. Fairly simple.
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2012 3:41 PM, "Dan Mahoney" wrote:
>> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists. Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick to turn on its very own.
>>
>> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders" decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>>
>> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror! Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the biological necessities of our existence.
>>
>> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating! Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience, and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go. Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>>
>> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Splinter Wrenn

2012-04-09

These folks make a kit for adventure motorcyclists. Maybe they could make one for cyclists...

http://www.bestrestproducts.com/p-342-common-sense-kit.aspx

Splinter


toddistic

2012-04-09

Well said...

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:16 PM, adam holt wrote:

> "Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go."
>
> I don't chime in on these discussions too often, but this whole issue and
> rationalization irritated me. I own a dog, as does my neighbor. If my
> neighbor's dog pees in my yard, perhaps in front of my child, I understand
> it - he's a dog.
>
> If my neighbor (whom I am great friends with) pees in my yard, then he and
> I will have a talk about why I'd prefer him to not pee in my yard.
>
> If a total stranger, connected with an event that I have no stake in, pees
> in my yard, when there are port-o-potties nearby, and continues to do so,
> despite having been asked not to, then I would have every right to be
> angry. Peeing in public is not part of the agony and glory of amateur
> cycling, it's just inconsiderate and lazy, and causes the loss of venues.
>
> Adam
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


adam holt

2012-04-09

"Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go."

I don't chime in on these discussions too often, but this whole issue and rationalization irritated me. I own a dog, as does my neighbor. If my neighbor's dog pees in my yard, perhaps in front of my child, I understand it - he's a dog.

If my neighbor (whom I am great friends with) pees in my yard, then he and I will have a talk about why I'd prefer him to not pee in my yard.

If a total stranger, connected with an event that I have no stake in, pees in my yard, when there are port-o-potties nearby, and continues to do so, despite having been asked not to, then I would have every right to be angry. Peeing in public is not part of the agony and glory of amateur cycling, it's just inconsiderate and lazy, and causes the loss of venues.

Adam

Sent from my iPhone


Kevin

2012-04-09

The POC does not go for so long that a racer could not take care of business in the provided facilities prior to the race and be fine for the duration.  My inclination is to ban the guilty from participation for a full year.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination
From :Josh LeBus
Date :Sun, 08-Apr-2012 20:48
To :Scott Jones
CC :"obra@list.obra.org" ,Dan Mahoney

Out of curiosity where does the pro peloton pee at Amgen Tour of California? Primarily while racing? 

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:14 PM, Scott Jones <scottjones007@gmail.com> wrote:


Dan,

The local woman who witnessed this yesterday told race promoters and officials within minutes of the action. Not the first year that this type of behavior has happened and local residents were already pretty upset before this action took place. The loss of the venue, which benefits the local school, would be a huge loss to racers and those in the school. 


The riders in question were visible to a driver and racers, in full team kit, peeing on a tractor on private property. This does not mean you find a secluded place to urinate, it means you use the proto-potties that were easily accessible!


-Scott


On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Steven Beardsley <srbeards@gmail.com> wrote:

If a race promoter asks you to not drive a red car to the race because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.


If a race promoter asks you to not walk in the flower beds because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.


If a race promoter asks you to not pee anywhere but the provided porto-o-poties because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do.


If you do it, you shouldn't be allowed to race. Fairly simple.



On Apr 8, 2012 3:41 PM, "Dan Mahoney" <dan.m.mahoney@gmail.com> wrote:

Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists.  Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some reason related to cycling?  Anyone?  I know I certainly have.  Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away.  It is an essential part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional ranks.  That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick to turn on its very own.



Public urination is harmless.  Now maybe the most recent "offenders" decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk.  And we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will evaporate almost as quickly.  If you sent the good folks over at CSI to locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.



So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory.  Oh no, the horror!  Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't much to see.  Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it myself, and I'm standing right there.  Perhaps I've just been going to all the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main Street.  If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the biological necessities of our existence.



I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding on the roads either.  The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating!  Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience, and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with the complainers.  Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go.  Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high horses before you soil your saddle.  The riders are doing it, the OBRA officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.



-Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org





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Josh LeBus

2012-04-09

Out of curiosity where does the pro peloton pee at Amgen Tour of California? Primarily while racing?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:14 PM, Scott Jones wrote:

> Dan,
>
> The local woman who witnessed this yesterday told race promoters and officials within minutes of the action. Not the first year that this type of behavior has happened and local residents were already pretty upset before this action took place. The loss of the venue, which benefits the local school, would be a huge loss to racers and those in the school.
>
> The riders in question were visible to a driver and racers, in full team kit, peeing on a tractor on private property. This does not mean you find a secluded place to urinate, it means you use the proto-potties that were easily accessible!
>
> -Scott
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
> If a race promoter asks you to not drive a red car to the race because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>
> If a race promoter asks you to not walk in the flower beds because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>
> If a race promoter asks you to not pee anywhere but the provided porto-o-poties because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do.
>
> If you do it, you shouldn't be allowed to race. Fairly simple.
>
> On Apr 8, 2012 3:41 PM, "Dan Mahoney" wrote:
> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists. Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick to turn on its very own.
>
> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders" decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>
> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror! Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the biological necessities of our existence.
>
> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating! Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience, and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go. Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>
> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Scott Jones

2012-04-09

Dan,

The local woman who witnessed this yesterday told race promoters and
officials within minutes of the action. Not the first year that this type
of behavior has happened and local residents were already pretty upset
before this action took place. The loss of the venue, which benefits the
local school, would be a huge loss to racers and those in the school.

The riders in question were visible to a driver and racers, in full team
kit, peeing on a tractor on private property. This does not mean you find a
secluded place to urinate, it means you use the proto-potties that were
easily accessible!

-Scott

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Steven Beardsley wrote:

> If a race promoter asks you to not drive a red car to the race because it
> endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>
> If a race promoter asks you to not walk in the flower beds because it
> endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.
>
> If a race promoter asks you to not pee anywhere but the provided
> porto-o-poties because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just
> don't do.
>
> If you do it, you shouldn't be allowed to race. Fairly simple.
> On Apr 8, 2012 3:41 PM, "Dan Mahoney" wrote:
>
>> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow
>> cyclists. Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in
>> public for some reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly
>> have. Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the
>> time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to
>> the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential
>> part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the
>> professional ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first
>> hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is
>> so quick to turn on its very own.
>>
>> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders"
>> decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little
>> kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my
>> stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And
>> we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the
>> urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will
>> evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to
>> locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>>
>> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing
>> experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror!
>> Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but
>> boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't
>> much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it
>> myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all
>> the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his
>> hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main
>> Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I
>> apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all
>> caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the
>> biological necessities of our existence.
>>
>> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our
>> tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding
>> on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on
>> bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating!
>> Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience,
>> and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with
>> the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go.
>> Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high
>> horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA
>> officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in
>> public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon
>> our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>>
>> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Pat Malach

2012-04-09

Officials doled out $2,400 worth of fines during stage 1 recently at Redlands, including nearly 40 riders fined $50 apiece for public urination.


Norrene

2012-04-09

Cycling is already taking a bad rap on a lot of fronts, we don't need to add more fuel to the fire by disrespecting communities that allow OBRA to put on races.

For all those who feel it's okay to pee on someone's property, what if the role was reversed? What if an event came to your neighborhood and you had people peeing on your lawn -would you get upset then?

Maybe one solution is to fine both the rider and team, this is what Redland's officials had to do on one stage this year - they issued over $2,000 in fines, because the community was very upset as rider after rider peed in public and disrespected their homes.

cheers
Norrene


Jeff Tedder

2012-04-08

I agree, we all pee out on the road while training etc, when there is no
other option.....I don't think most of us are freaked out about seeing
someone pee while out cycling etc....but the land owners around the races do
care.....But at the start of a race where there was atleast 8 porta potties
sitting 50 feet from the start line???? and knowing the race venue had
already had issues with people doing this in the past few years and you do
it anyway.....just a total not giving a shit attitude towards OBRA officials
and the land owners at venues....The team leader of this team should suspend
the racers himself, or boot them off the team, if someone on Hammer Velo
gets caught peeing at a race where there is toilets and gets DQ'ed I can
tell you point blank that I would either remove them from the team or there
would be some harsh penalties....

From: "Dan Mahoney"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists.
> Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some
> reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often,
> there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive
> nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest
> McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our
> sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional
> ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of
> complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so
> quick to turn on its very own.
>
> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders"
> decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some
> little kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of
> my stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk.
> And we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away
> the urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will
> evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to
> locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>
> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing
> experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror!
> Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but
> boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't
> much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it
> myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all
> the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his
> hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main
> Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I
> apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was
> all caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the
> biological necessities of our existence.
>
> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our
> tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding
> on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on
> bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating!
> Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience,
> and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with
> the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go.
> Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high
> horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA
> officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in
> public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon
> our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>
> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Richard Rosko

2012-04-08

>From the classic Billy Madison:

"Mr. Madison (or "morons" as Mike Murray puts it), what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."


Mike Murray

2012-04-08

The rules already allow penalties for this and the officials do assess these penalties. Morons still do it.

A fine point is that board members do not make these rules. Racing rules, which includes behavior at races, can be proposed by anyone but require a vote of club representatives.
Mike Murray
Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 15:38:14
To: dacrizzow;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

Taking a whiz off the trail out in the mountains during an XC race is almost
always no problem (of course serious racers never stop to do that). Common
sense (I am sensing some obra members are shy on that) says do not relieve
yourself in an area near a population center like the start or finish /
neighborhood for example. I do see this type of post every year (not just
for road......I have seen it for Cross and the start areas of XC). It seems
that if it is enough of a problem............THE BOARD COULD PUT A RULE IN
THE BOOK and let the officials enforce. Why do this BS every year?

Even though this seems like a headline issue now, it is not like that huge /
humongous log that was on the Cross course a couple of years ago out at
Sherwood! Now that was a problem that needs a rule written into the book.

Great day to ride.........too bad I spent it doing domestics.
take care out there,
ronnie

-----Original Message-----
From: dacrizzow
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 2:39 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

i have to admit, it get's really old seeing some post reminding us not to
relieve ourselves in public. i always think, "really? you need to remind us
this?" apparently so. seems like such a basic thing to consider. i'm not
really into this whole "it makes us all look bad" way of thinking but this
really makes us all look bad. i mean this is road biking for chissakes, not
mountain biking! (before anyone gets too upset, that last bit was a joke)
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Steven Beardsley

2012-04-08

If a race promoter asks you to not drive a red car to the race because it
endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.

If a race promoter asks you to not walk in the flower beds because it
endangers the use of the venue, then you just don't do it.

If a race promoter asks you to not pee anywhere but the provided
porto-o-poties because it endangers the use of the venue, then you just
don't do.

If you do it, you shouldn't be allowed to race. Fairly simple.
On Apr 8, 2012 3:41 PM, "Dan Mahoney" wrote:

> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists.
> Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some
> reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often, there
> simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature
> of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest
> McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our
> sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional
> ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of
> complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick
> to turn on its very own.
>
> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders"
> decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little
> kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my
> stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And
> we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the
> urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will
> evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to
> locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>
> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing
> experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror!
> Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but
> boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't
> much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it
> myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all
> the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his
> hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main
> Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I
> apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all
> caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the
> biological necessities of our existence.
>
> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our
> tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding
> on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on
> bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating!
> Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience,
> and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with
> the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go.
> Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high
> horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA
> officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in
> public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon
> our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>
> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Mike Murray

2012-04-08

Probably the most inaccurate OBRA chat post ever, which is a statement. Personally I don't care about people peeing wherever but the people that control access to the places where we race REALLY care about it and don't like it. Public urination is one of the most common causes for loss of bike racing venues in the whole US. We could try to change everyone's point of view but in the process we will lose places to race. Alternatively we can just keep our junk in our pants and use the appropriate facilities which will allow us to keep racing venues. Seems like a pretty easy choice.

Mike Murray
Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Mahoney
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:41:03
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists. Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick to turn on its very own.

Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders" decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.

So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror! Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the biological necessities of our existence.

I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating! Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience, and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go. Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.

-Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Erik Voldengen

2012-04-08

Ironically, I read this while peeing on the side of the road.

-Erik

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Dan Mahoney wrote:

> Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists.
> Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some
> reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often, there
> simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature
> of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest
> McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our
> sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional
> ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of
> complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick
> to turn on its very own.
>
> Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders"
> decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little
> kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my
> stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And
> we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the
> urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will
> evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to
> locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.
>
> So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing
> experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror!
> Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but
> boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't
> much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it
> myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all
> the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his
> hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main
> Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I
> apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all
> caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the
> biological necessities of our existence.
>
> I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our
> tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding
> on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on
> bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating!
> Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience,
> and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with
> the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go.
> Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high
> horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA
> officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in
> public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon
> our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.
>
> -Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Dan Mahoney

2012-04-08

Once again, I find myself disgusted by the behavior of my fellow cyclists. Who among us can honestly say he or she hasn't urinated in public for some reason related to cycling? Anyone? I know I certainly have. Often, there simply isn't any alternative, and certainly given the time-sensitive nature of racing, it would be infeasible to take a detour to the nearest McDonald's while the peloton pedals away. It is an essential part of our sport, from the beginner level all the way up through the professional ranks. That's why I find it so troubling that at the first hint of complaint about public urination, the collective OBRA community is so quick to turn on its very own.

Public urination is harmless. Now maybe the most recent "offenders" decided to relieve themselves on some prize-winning orchids, or some little kid who was scurrying underfoot, but the most common recipients of my stream are dirt, rocks, unmowed grass, and the occasionaly tree trunk. And we're in Oregon, people--9 months of the year, the rain will wash away the urine as quickly as its deposited, and the rest of the time it will evaporate almost as quickly. If you sent the good folks over at CSI to locate the offending puddles, I bet they wouldn't be able to do it.

So I suppose that leaves innocent bystanders with the traumatizing experience of seeing someone do it, in all his glory. Oh no, the horror! Now, perhaps some other men in OBRA-land are better endowed than I am, but boy, I tell ya, when it's race time and I've got to go, there really ain't much to see. Sometimes on cold days, I have trouble even finding it myself, and I'm standing right there. Perhaps I've just been going to all the wrong races--maybe this was the weekend Ron Jeremey decided to try his hand at bicycle racing, but not before taking a quick piss down Main Street. If that's the case, perhaps his actions were in bad taste, and I apologize for misunderstanding the situation, but more likely, this was all caused by a couple of uppity prudes who are unwilling to confront the biological necessities of our existence.

I recognize that the non-cycling public might not be too welcoming to our tiny puddles, but plenty of them aren't particularly happy with us riding on the roads either. The latest OBRA newsletter had a big feature on bicycle advocacy--wake up, OBRA--this is where we need advocating! Urinating in public is an essential part of the bicycle racing experience, and this organization needs to stop betraying its members by siding with the complainers. Anywhere a dog can go, a cyclist should be able to go. Those of you complaining about these riders need to get off your high horses before you soil your saddle. The riders are doing it, the OBRA officials are doing it, the spectators are doing it--we're all pissing in public, and we all know there's no tangible harm to it, so let us abandon our public charade and start standing up for what we know is right.

-Dan Mahoney, Frequent Public Urinator Since 2009.


rondot@spiritone.com

2012-04-08

Taking a whiz off the trail out in the mountains during an XC race is almost
always no problem (of course serious racers never stop to do that). Common
sense (I am sensing some obra members are shy on that) says do not relieve
yourself in an area near a population center like the start or finish /
neighborhood for example. I do see this type of post every year (not just
for road......I have seen it for Cross and the start areas of XC). It seems
that if it is enough of a problem............THE BOARD COULD PUT A RULE IN
THE BOOK and let the officials enforce. Why do this BS every year?

Even though this seems like a headline issue now, it is not like that huge /
humongous log that was on the Cross course a couple of years ago out at
Sherwood! Now that was a problem that needs a rule written into the book.

Great day to ride.........too bad I spent it doing domestics.
take care out there,
ronnie

-----Original Message-----
From: dacrizzow
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 2:39 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

i have to admit, it get's really old seeing some post reminding us not to
relieve ourselves in public. i always think, "really? you need to remind us
this?" apparently so. seems like such a basic thing to consider. i'm not
really into this whole "it makes us all look bad" way of thinking but this
really makes us all look bad. i mean this is road biking for chissakes, not
mountain biking! (before anyone gets too upset, that last bit was a joke)
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dacrizzow

2012-04-08

i have to admit, it get's really old seeing some post reminding us not to relieve ourselves in public. i always think, "really? you need to remind us this?" apparently so. seems like such a basic thing to consider. i'm not really into this whole "it makes us all look bad" way of thinking but this really makes us all look bad. i mean this is road biking for chissakes, not mountain biking! (before anyone gets too upset, that last bit was a joke)


joec@aracnet.com

2012-04-08

Although not as draconian as Jeff's thoughts, I say suspend the rider(s) for a period of 30 calendar days (a rider is suspended for fighting? Why not this?). If the same rider or members from the same team do the same act, then the entire team is suspended for the current racing year (or the follpwing year, depending on the time of the calendar).

Jeff IS right on this point: How many times does the flyer have to spell it out for you boneheads to understand???? (I use the collective 'you' in this case)

Joe
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff Tedder"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 11:43:58
To: ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

So how many times do people have to be told and how many times have they
read in OBRA posts prior to races not to urinate on other peoples property
at races, I am sure 100's of times....When there were more than enough porta
potties at POC to handle everyone, I used them 3 times and never had to wait
to get in one....I say DQ them from OBRA forever instead of giving them
alittle slap on the hands...Enough of this crap is enough......Obviously
they think they are above the rules and have no respect for OBRA, other
teams or the people that allow us to put these races on. No big loss to OBRA
that's for sure, were much better off without them and their childish
behavior and all the BS that comes along with it.....

From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:30 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

So this comes up every year. Well, this year we may have just lost
the Piece of Cake venue because of the actions of 2 or 3 individuals.

There were plenty of portable toilets that were extremely close.

I am waiting for a report but there were some very irate neighbors.
Needless to say use your head- don't do it.

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
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joec@aracnet.com

2012-04-08

Although not as draconian as Jeff's thoughts, I say suspend the rider(s) for a period of 30 calendar days (a rider is suspended for fighting? Why not this?). If the same rider or members from the same team do the same act, then the entire team is suspended for the current racing year (or the follpwing year, depending on the time of the calendar).

Jeff IS right on this point: How many times does the flyer have to spell it out for you boneheads to understand???? (I use the collective 'you' in this case)

Joe
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff Tedder"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 11:43:58
To: ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

So how many times do people have to be told and how many times have they
read in OBRA posts prior to races not to urinate on other peoples property
at races, I am sure 100's of times....When there were more than enough porta
potties at POC to handle everyone, I used them 3 times and never had to wait
to get in one....I say DQ them from OBRA forever instead of giving them
alittle slap on the hands...Enough of this crap is enough......Obviously
they think they are above the rules and have no respect for OBRA, other
teams or the people that allow us to put these races on. No big loss to OBRA
that's for sure, were much better off without them and their childish
behavior and all the BS that comes along with it.....

From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:30 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

So this comes up every year. Well, this year we may have just lost
the Piece of Cake venue because of the actions of 2 or 3 individuals.

There were plenty of portable toilets that were extremely close.

I am waiting for a report but there were some very irate neighbors.
Needless to say use your head- don't do it.

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2012-04-08

So how many times do people have to be told and how many times have they
read in OBRA posts prior to races not to urinate on other peoples property
at races, I am sure 100's of times....When there were more than enough porta
potties at POC to handle everyone, I used them 3 times and never had to wait
to get in one....I say DQ them from OBRA forever instead of giving them
alittle slap on the hands...Enough of this crap is enough......Obviously
they think they are above the rules and have no respect for OBRA, other
teams or the people that allow us to put these races on. No big loss to OBRA
that's for sure, were much better off without them and their childish
behavior and all the BS that comes along with it.....

From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:30 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Public Urination

So this comes up every year. Well, this year we may have just lost
the Piece of Cake venue because of the actions of 2 or 3 individuals.

There were plenty of portable toilets that were extremely close.

I am waiting for a report but there were some very irate neighbors.
Needless to say use your head- don't do it.

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2012-04-08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4yqbLHYbcI

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 4/7/2012 3:30 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
> So this comes up every year. Well, this year we may have just lost
> the Piece of Cake venue because of the actions of 2 or 3 individuals.
>
> There were plenty of portable toilets that were extremely close.
>
> I am waiting for a report but there were some very irate neighbors.
> Needless to say use your head- don't do it.
>


T. Kenji Sugahara

2012-04-07

So this comes up every year. Well, this year we may have just lost
the Piece of Cake venue because of the actions of 2 or 3 individuals.

There were plenty of portable toilets that were extremely close.

I am waiting for a report but there were some very irate neighbors.
Needless to say use your head- don't do it.

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: