gschreckchat@comcast.net
All fine assuming the cyclist in his or her haste does not miss seeing the car or mistakenly think he or she can get through the intersection before the car. How hard is it to do a short track stand and look both ways.
It is a lot easier and generally fairer to enforce a rule consistently with a bright line than to have varying enforecement and differing standards. I would worry more about being discriminated against than being treated the same.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jeff Tedder & Shari"
> Well I guess everyone is assuming that all cyclist go flying through stops
> signs without slowing down, this all got started about people getting
> tickets for not coming to complete stops, feet down.....If you go flying
> through a stop sign then yes you do deserve a ticket, but if you come up on
> a stop sign, no cars in sight and don't come to a complete stop do you
> deserve a 242.00 ticket? This is happening and has happened to people I
> know....Doesn't our thin police force have better things to do, gang
> shootings, rapes, murder, drug dealers selling to our kids,etc etc
> etc....There's bigger fish to fry than some commuter riding into work at
> 7:30 am, doing good things for traffic problems by leaving his or her car at
> home, getting some exercise and then getting slammed with a 242.00 ticket.
> ...How many cases of people running stop signs or lights on there bikes and
> getting hit has there been lately? It's always cars hitting people from
> behind or running them off the road etc........Let's worry about that before
> this other issue....Just my thoughts....I am sure I will get a ear full, so
> go ahead and get started.....Have a great day.....enjoy the sunshine.....
>
>
>
>
> ----
> From: "Raedeke, John"
> To: "James Thomas"
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bike stings, stop signs
>
>
> >
> > While this may sound like a great solution you may want to think about
> > what psychological impact this has on the people that may hit you on
> > your bike while running a stop sign. Let's say you die or are crippled,
> > how does a $8.25 ticket justify this. I have a friend that hit a child
> > that ran out in front of his car (by you calculations 45 pounds x .05 =
> > $2.25), he was well under the speed limit, yet there was nothing he
> > could do to stop in time. The child died and the driver was so
> > distraught that he could barely ride in a car, and couldn't drive for
> > several years afterwards. We need to think about these situations, it
> > doesn't just impact you it impacts many people. Maybe a person swerves
> > to miss you and runs over someone else or into another car. Should you
> > only be cited for a $8.25 fine for that??? We share these roads with
> > the cars, pedestrians, cyclists and others we just all need to be
> > responsible and cautious.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > James Thomas wrote:
> >
> >> This is a belated response to the bike sting thread from May 3rd. I
> >> also tried to respond to the Jonathan Maus's May 11th blog http://
> >> bikeportland.org/2007/05/11/one-year-later-at-the-salmon-street-stop-
> >> sign/, but the blog never accepts my responses on any topic (so
> >> Jonathan, drop me an email).
> >>
> >> The root of the problem lies in the laws for traffic violations, which
> >
> >> should be changed. I would like to see cyclists take a legislative
> >> approach.
> >>
> >> Fundamentally, we should accept the responsibility for the mass of the
> >
> >> vehicle we are controlling. I believe not only cyclists would support
> >> it, but so would pedestrians and owners of smaller vehicles.
> >> I am an owner and operator of various vehicles at various times,
> >> including bicycles, a Mini Cooper and a full size van. When I make a
> >> mistake in the van, I am taking on much more responsibility for
> >> causing injury and damage. The penalty for an infraction should
> >> represent that liability. A rather simple legislative solution would
> >> be a rating multiplied by the mass of the vehicle.
> >>
> >> For example, let's start with running a stop sign. At present our
> >> society has assigned a value of $242 to that infraction. For
> >> simplicity, let us assume that the ideal car weighs 4840 pounds, then
> >> the value 0.05 could be assigned to the infraction (eg. run the stop
> >> sign, get a ticket for 0.05 x the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 4840
> >> lbs, leads to a fine of $242). Now if I ran the stop sign in my van
> >> and was ticketed, the 6600 lbs GVWR leads to a fine of $330 while in
> >> my Mini at 3600 lbs it would lead to a fine of $180 and on my bike,
> >> my gross vehicle weight might be 165 lbs leading to a fine of $8.25.
> >> I think the risks of damage and my danger to my fellow members of
> >> society are quite well reflected in this. After all, the laws of
> >> physics apply very well to mass (as well as velocity). We could choose
> >
> >> net weight or gross weight or some other definition of weight, the
> >> important thing is that the mass of the vehicle comes closest to
> >> approximating responsibility.
> >>
> >> So, perhaps I should fire this email off to the BTA and my
> >> legislators, but in the meantime I've cluttered your race email. Any
> >> thoughts?
> >>
> >> James Thomas
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