Jeff Tedder & Shari
Nobody is telling anybody to dis-obey the law, again you are not reading what I am writing and that's why stuff like this never gets resolved.....So every team ride, not only ours, guys, including you are breaking the law, when's the last time everybody on any team ride stopped and unclipped or everyone was doing a track stand at a stop sign, it NEVER happens.....And again, in these cases I am talking about there was NO CARS in sight in 25 mph zone residential area's....early on Sunday mornings....
That's enough from me, I am going to go out and ride through some stop signs I think to burn off some energy.........adios
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: Jeff Tedder & Shari ; Raedeke,John ; James Thomas
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bike stings, stop signs
I did read what you wrote. I am saying that there is a posibility that there could be a car and the cyclist would not have noticed it. The law generally does not allow you to decide when it makes sense or not, as mistakes in judgement or perception occur which can cause accidents which the law was designed to prevent. On the basis of your argument, autos should be allowed to go through those intersections as well.
I realize you an I do not agree, and you can do and feel what you want, but I really disagree with your telling others it is fine to disobey the law.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jeff Tedder & Shari"
There again George, you are not reading what I wrote, early morning, no cars in sight either way at 4 way stops, I know of 3 people that have gotten tickets in this same scenario.....They were down to a few miles and hour and rolled on through with no cars in either direction, both in residential area's, so does that warrant a 242.00 ticket, you do it, everybody does it.....All I am saying is there's more important things going on in this city....Go find something better to do with your time....Like patrolling my street & plenty more around town where people fly down it at 40-50 mph in a 25mph zone and hit the speed bumps so hard they leave the ground, we have called the police department I don't know how many times to get some patrol out here before somebody dies walking out to there mailbox out of there driveway....Never get any response....That is what I am talking about....They obviously have very little time becaus e of less force, there time could be used stopping something a little more serious. I know you will have an answer for this to so go ahead, but it really doesn't matter at this point, everybody has there opinions....ours happens to differ....
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: Jeff Tedder & Shari ; Raedeke,John ; James Thomas
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bike stings, stop signs
All fine assuming the cyclist in his or her haste does not miss seeing the car or mistakenly think he or she can get through the intersection before the car. How hard is it to do a short track stand and look both ways.
It is a lot easier and generally fairer to enforce a rule consistently with a bright line than to have varying enforecement and differing standards. I would worry more about being discriminated against than being treated the same.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jeff Tedder & Shari"
> Well I guess everyone is assuming that all cyclist go flying through stops
> signs without slowing down, this all got started about people getting
> tickets for not coming to complete stops, feet down.....If you go flying
> through a stop sign then yes you do deserve a ticket, but if you come up on
> a stop sign, no cars in sight and don't come to a complete stop do you
> deserve a 242.00 ticket? This is happening and has happened to people I
> know....Doesn't our thin police force have better things to do, gang
> shootings, rapes, murder, drug dealers selling to our kids,etc etc
> etc....There's bigger fish to fry than some commuter riding into work at
& gt; 7:30 am, doing good things for traffic pr oblems by leaving his or her car at
> home, getting some exercise and then getting slammed with a 242.00 ticket.
> ...How many cases of people running stop signs or lights on there bikes and
> getting hit has there been lately? It's always cars hitting people from
> behind or running them off the road etc........Let's worry about that before
> this other issue....Just my thoughts....I am sure I will get a ear full, so
> go ahead and get started.....Have a great day.....enjoy the sunshine.....
>
>
>
>
> ----
> From: "Raedeke, John"
> To: "James Thomas"
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bike stings, stop signs
>
>
> >
> > While this may sound like a great solution you may want to think about < BR>> > what psychological impact this ha s on t he people that may hit you on
> > your bike while running a stop sign. Let's say you die or are crippled,
> > how does a $8.25 ticket justify this. I have a friend that hit a child
> > that ran out in front of his car (by you calculations 45 pounds x .05 =
> > $2.25), he was well under the speed limit, yet there was nothing he
> > could do to stop in time. The child died and the driver was so
> > distraught that he could barely ride in a car, and couldn't drive for
> > several years afterwards. We need to think about these situations, it
> > doesn't just impact you it impacts many people. Maybe a person swerves
> > to miss you and runs over someone else or into another car. Should you
> > only be cited for a $8.25 fine for that??? We share these roads with
> > the cars, pedestrians, cyclists and others we just all need t o be
> > responsible and cautious.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > James Thomas wrote:
> >
> >> This is a belated response to the bike sting thread from May 3rd. I
> >> also tried to respond to the Jonathan Maus's May 11th blog http://
> >> bikeportland.org/2007/05/11/one-year-later-at-the-salmon-street-stop-
> >> sign/, but the blog never accepts my responses on any topic (so
> >> Jonathan, drop me an email).
> >>
> >> The root of the problem lies in the laws for traffic violations, which
> >
> >> should be changed. I would like to see cyclists take a legislative
> >> approach.
> >>
> >> Fundamentally, we should accept the responsibility for the mass of the
> >
> >> vehicle we are controlling. I believe not only cyclis ts would support
> >> it, but so wo uld pe destrians and owners of smaller vehicles.
> >> I am an owner and operator of various vehicles at various times,
> >> including bicycles, a Mini Cooper and a full size van. When I make a
> >> mistake in the van, I am taking on much more responsibility for
> >> causing injury and damage. The penalty for an infraction should
> >> represent that liability. A rather simple legislative solution would
> >> be a rating multiplied by the mass of the vehicle.
> >>
> >> For example, let's start with running a stop sign. At present our
> >> society has assigned a value of $242 to that infraction. For
> >> simplicity, let us assume that the ideal car weighs 4840 pounds, then
> >> the value 0.05 could be assigned to the infraction (eg. run the stop
> >> sign, get a ticket for 0.05 x the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 4840
> >& gt; lb s, leads to a fine of $242). Now if I ran the stop sign in my van
> >> and was ticketed, the 6600 lbs GVWR leads to a fine of $330 while in
> >> my Mini at 3600 lbs it would lead to a fine of $180 and on my bike,
> >> my gross vehicle weight might be 165 lbs leading to a fine of $8.25.
> >> I think the risks of damage and my danger to my fellow members of
> >> society are quite well reflected in this. After all, the laws of
> >> physics apply very well to mass (as well as velocity). We could choose
> >
> >> net weight or gross weight or some other definition of weight, the
> >> important thing is that the mass of the vehicle comes closest to
> >> approximating responsibility.
> >>
> >> So, perhaps I should fire this email off to the BTA and my
> >> legislato rs, but in the meantime I've cluttered your race email. Any > >> thoughts?
> >>
> >> James Thomas
> >> _______________________________________________
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