Luciano bailey
I did a photo expose on cars failing to stop and the most common stop with
half the car across the white line which by law is where the front of the
car should not cross. All of this becomes a moot point when statistically
damage and injury caused by motorists far outways the cyclist risk of injury
outside the cyclist himself. What needs to be inacted is hub laws
pertainiing to cyclists and auto's in an urban environment which differs
greatly from sub-urban areas in cyclist density and common sense rules of
the road. Case in point one would stand great risk riding in a lane of
traffic in Beaverton as opposed to Hawthorne Blvd. where the lane is the
only logical choice. The problem is some outside the hub sub-urban driver is
not used to this and will create idiot risk by tail gating a bike down the
hill doing forty just as they would with a car. The prevailiong attitude of
the motorist is something ridiculous like he should'nt be on the road if he
is not willing to risk getting run over. This would be true if the law
did'nt require one car length for every ten miles per hour which translates
into about eighty feet at forty, yet time and time again I have had cars as
close as ten behind me while I have descended down Hawthorne. As bike rights
laws etc creep into the twenty first century we need to be very careful that
we keep our minds and tax planning dollars on the future and exactly what
that means. To continue to try to reinvent car dominated communities is a
waste of time money and most of all the valuble climate and natural
resources of this beautiful city and state. All those wishing to see future
gridlock and LA type air quality stand by without drastic and commited
effort on the part of the community at large that is the slippery slope on
which we now slide. A little off topic but what we are really talking about
is the big picture.
>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Jeff Tedder & Shari" , "Raedeke,John"
>, "James Thomas"
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bike stings, stop signs
>Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:04 +0000
>
>All fine assuming the cyclist in his or her haste does not miss seeing the
>car or mistakenly think he or she can get through the intersection before
>the car. How hard is it to do a short track stand and look both ways.
>
>It is a lot easier and generally fairer to enforce a rule consistently with
>a bright line than to have varying enforecement and differing standards. I
>would worry more about being discriminated against than being treated the
>same.
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Jeff Tedder & Shari"
>
> > Well I guess everyone is assuming that all cyclist go flying through
>stops
> > signs without slowing down, this all got started about people getting
> > tickets for not coming to complete stops, feet down.....If you go flying
> > through a stop sign then yes you do deserve a ticket, but if you come up
>on
> > a stop sign, no cars in sight and don't come to a complete stop do you
> > deserve a 242.00 ticket? This is happening and has happened to people I
> > know....Doesn't our thin police force have better things to do, gang
> > shootings, rapes, murder, drug dealers selling to our kids,etc etc
> > etc....There's bigger fish to fry than some commuter riding into work at
> > 7:30 am, doing good things for traffic problems by leaving his or her
>car at
> > home, getting some exercise and then getting slammed with a 242.00
>ticket.
> > ...How many cases of people running stop signs or lights on there bikes
>and
> > getting hit has there been lately? It's always cars hitting people from
> > behind or running them off the road etc........Let's worry about that
>before
> > this other issue....Just my thoughts....I am sure I will get a ear full,
>so
> > go ahead and get started.....Have a great day.....enjoy the
>sunshine.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> > From: "Raedeke, John"
> > To: "James Thomas"
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bike stings, stop signs
> >
> >
> > >
> > > While this may sound like a great solution you may want to think about
> > > what psychological impact this has on the people that may hit you on
> > > your bike while running a stop sign. Let's say you die or are
>crippled,
> > > how does a $8.25 ticket justify this. I have a friend that hit a child
> > > that ran out in front of his car (by you calculations 45 pounds x .05
>=
> > > $2.25), he was well under the speed limit, yet there was nothing he
> > > could do to stop in time. The child died and the driver was so
> > > distraught that he could barely ride in a car, and couldn't drive for
> > > several years afterwards. We need to think about these situations, it
> > > doesn't just impact you it impacts many people. Maybe a person swerves
> > > to miss you and runs over someone else or into another car. Should you
> > > only be cited for a $8.25 fine for that??? We share these roads with
> > > the cars, pedestrians, cyclists and others we just all need to be
> > > responsible and cautious.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > James Thomas wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is a belated response to the bike sting thread from May 3rd. I
> > >> also tried to respond to the Jonathan Maus's May 11th blog http://
> > >> bikeportland.org/2007/05/11/one-year-later-at-the-salmon-street-stop-
> > >> sign/, but the blog never accepts my responses on any topic (so
> > >> Jonathan, drop me an email).
> > >>
> > >> The root of the problem lies in the laws for traffic violations,
>which
> > >
> > >> should be changed. I would like to see cyclists take a legislative
> > >> approach.
> > >>
> > >> Fundamentally, we should accept the responsibility for the mass of
>the
> > >
> > >> vehicle we are controlling. I believe not only cyclists would support
> > >> it, but so would pedestrians and owners of smaller vehicles.
> > >> I am an owner and operator of various vehicles at various times,
> > >> including bicycles, a Mini Cooper and a full size van. When I make a
> > >> mistake in the van, I am taking on much more responsibility for
> > >> causing injury and damage. The penalty for an infraction should
> > >> represent that liability. A rather simple legislative solution would
> > >> be a rating multiplied by the mass of the vehicle.
> > >>
> > >> For example, let's start with running a stop sign. At present our
> > >> society has assigned a value of $242 to that infraction. For
> > >> simplicity, let us assume that the ideal car weighs 4840 pounds, then
> > >> the value 0.05 could be assigned to the infraction (eg. run the stop
> > >> sign, get a ticket for 0.05 x the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 4840
> > >> lbs, leads to a fine of $242). Now if I ran the stop sign in my van
> > >> and was ticketed, the 6600 lbs GVWR leads to a fine of $330 while in
> > >> my Mini at 3600 lbs it would lead to a fine of $180 and on my bike,
> > >> my gross vehicle weight might be 165 lbs leading to a fine of $8.25.
> > >> I think the risks of damage and my danger to my fellow members of
> > >> society are quite well reflected in this. After all, the laws of
> > >> physics apply very well to mass (as well as velocity). We could
>choose
> > >
> > >> net weight or gross weight or some other definition of weight, the
> > >> important thing is that the mass of the vehicle comes closest to
> > >> approximating responsibility.
> > >>
> > >> So, perhaps I should fire this email off to the BTA and my
> > >> legislators, but in the meantime I've cluttered your race email. Any
> > >> thoughts?
> > >>
> > >> James Thomas
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
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