Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Very good Brian. MTB racing is NOT at all like running with the exception that they both are outlets for competition. It is also very important that the competitions are not watered down to the easiest course. This would not be following the spirit of sport as it would not push the elite level racers. Shorter distances or abridged courses for lower divisions makes sense, but it does not have to move the level of kindergarten where everyone gets a ribbon. Most runners and bike racers do not need a ribbon to feel like a winner. The different categories/distances allow a racer to choose his pain, be it running or riding.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian L
To: 'Erik' ; 'obra'
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Falls City Firecracker: great event,but where are the women???
Though sometimes grueling, one of the reasons I race in the Expert class is for the longer distances - even though I'm not as competitive there. For me, its more bang for the buck, and I'm less willing to drive the distance for a shorter race.
Regarding making races the same distance, terrain can vary so much that a better gauge is how long it takes to complete the race - a 20 mile race in Bend is nothing like a 20 mile race at Falls City. To compare MTB race times from week to week you would have to do the same course all the time - and of course the weather would have to be the same. (I guess maybe running races don't vary much on the terrain so they can be compared easier.)
I agree with the earlier comment that a shorter distance does not a Beginner race make. I can very much understand a Beginner racer turning away from MTB racing after walking their bike half the time. I very much enjoy the technical races, but I also suggest alternate routes for Beginners when possible. (That might also encourage the Beginners who can ride the technical sections to upgrade.)
Just my perspective,
Brian List
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Erik
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:27 PM
To: John Hinke; obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Falls City Firecracker: great event, but where are the women???
I seem to recall this conversation here on the list not too long ago. Something about the absurdity of the average X-C course length here in Oregon and the effect it might be having on participation in summer events, racers being burned out on Epic courses before things even warm up, etc.
The word "Epic" of course is used because it's a lot easier to say than "course that's guaranteed to damage you, your bike, and your motivation - if you can finish".
Any psychologist will tell you that there are three main criteria that shape human behavior: fear, pain, and ambition. Right now Oregon mountainbiking is mainly using pain. The miserable experience that is the typical X-C race in this state is very likely to drive away all but the most ambitious riders. Hard terrain is one thing, but we give people a painful experience and there is little to feed their ambition.
Maybe mountainbiking needs to finally take some cues from the running community. Do you know what's really nice about 10k runs? Marathons? Half-Marathons? THEY'RE ALWAYS THE SAME DISTANCE.
Runners impress me. It's a very different attitude. You'll never hear a runner complain that they just paid $20-30 to run a measly 10 kilometers. They show up to compete at a set distance for what it is. Here's the important part: this allows all participants to compare this week's 10k time to last week's 10k time. This is infinitely smart compared to Mountainbike promotion. People keep showing up when they can see measurable improvement because they feel good about doing better than before. And yes, if you have your thinking caps on, this is the essence of ambition.
This concept of fixed distances extends to every endurance sport that comes to mind: Running, Triathlon, XC skiing, swimming . . . Why should Mountainbiking be any different? Would it really be a problem to have race distances set at 20, 30, and a "Marathon" distance of 50 miles? Or 20k, 40k, and 100k, whatever works. Does anybody else wonder if consistency might be a better route than simply driving away everyone who's not up to a 4-5 hour suffer fest?
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From: hinke@ashlandhome.net
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:23:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Falls City Firecracker: great event, but where are the women???
I agree that racing is hard. But it's also supposed to be fun, right? I mean, not too many of us make our living racing. Most of us just enjoy hanging out with like-minded people doing something fun.
I'm starting to get prepared for the Jedi state championship XC race coming up and was looking at last years results to try to gauge how much time it'll take me. Most of the men in my category took between 3-4.5 hours to do the Jedi race last year. Ouch! I'd better train some more.
I also noticed there were only 5 women who did the race. Their times for the pro/expert women were off the charts and very unreasonable for just about any "normal" mountain bike race. The pro woman took 4h14m to complete the course, while the expert woman took just under 5 hours! That's right: 5 hours. (Better start training more, eh?) How many people want to race that long or can race that long (ignoring all of the 12 hour and 24 hour racers out there)? That's a long time to race. I'm not sure I'd come back to a race if it was that long. I also understand that it's a tough decision for the promoters. If they make the course too short or easy, people will complain. If they make it too long people will complain. Finding that sweet spot is a challenge.
Anyway, I love the Jedi.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On Behalf Of Melissa Boyd
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 2:59 PM
To: sue butler
Cc: obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Falls City Firecracker: great event,but where are the women???
It does seem like women are avoiding mountain bike races, and some of the responses I heard said that it is "too hard".
Races are supposed to be hard! But, some promoters seem to take great glee in making them as hard as possible. That may be discouraging some of the women who are just getting started. For instance, if half the riders in a category find a long section of singletrack climb (or descent) unrideable and have to push their bikes, is that "too hard" for that category? What if it's 80%, or 100% that have to walk? Is that getting excessive? If the beginner women find they are spending more time pushing their bikes than riding them, it may be hard to get them to come back and try again. And yet, that may be just the Best Course Ever for the Expert riders and the strong guys.
Most races have beginner's distances that are shorter than the Sport and Expert races. Although it would be harder for the organizers, they might get more novices to give it a try if the beginner's course was technically easier and not just shorter.
Melissa
On 6/2/08, sue butler wrote:
I agree that this was a great race and a lot of fun. When do you get to race on almost ALL singletrack?
I also agree that it was extremely disappointing to have only 4 women line up for the afternoon session of racing. I know the Silverton road race took a few 'regulars' out of the pack, but I continue to wonder why other women don't like to race their mtb's? It is great fun, great people and a great workout! Stay tuned for upcoming mtb clinics that will be at the short track races, which start later this month. Maybe this will help get more women out there racing their mountain bikes. I think all the men that were there need to work on one woman each to get them there. Because I know when you have no one to race, sometimes then you don't go and the cycle continues... I was just glad to be home and able to race a new venue!!!
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