shane.young@comcast.net

Kevin is right, Craig is right, Cliff is right, Dave is right. Numbers are numbers and they will only take you so far, but they do hold some truth.

When I took a four year sample, this is what the numbers showed.

1st MTB race of the season usually had the highest turn out.

Race turnout for races after school was out of session would have close to half the rider turnout.

When the series fractured, races in the series had twice as many riders, aside for Spring Thaw.

Races that were part of the high-school series had more riders.

When school was out, there were very few juniors that raced and the beginner category at all ages almost became no existed.

Races closer to Portland, Bend and Ashland had higher turnouts.

Now would the number increase in the summer if there were fewer races in the spring? Maybe. I am not convinced of that. I have had plenty of conversation with people throughout the years and the number one reason people said they dropped out was because summer was for family activities and their family wasn?t set on MTB being a family activity.

Bend: Bend has higher turnouts for a couple of reasons. They have a ton of one day riders that don?t race any other races other than the Bend races. It is easier to convince the family to go to Bend for a weekend of fun, than say Grants Pass. Races like Race around Bend and Pickett?s Charge are great courses for beginners, they weren?t too technical and they didn?t have a lot of climbing.

Ashland: Like Bend, Ashland has a ton of one day riders that don?t go to any other races, and again it is easier to convince the family to go to Ashland.

So why not more races in the summer? Places like Horning?s Hideout and Big K are booked or too expensive in the summer. Places like Oakridge, Grants Pass, Fall?s City and so on have to worry about the forest service cancelling the race due to fire danger.

What do you need to do if you to race during the summer and want to see more races during the summer? Stop racing in the spring, and make sure you make ALL of the races during the summer. This will send promoters a clear message that there is a need for more racing during the summer and not so much in the spring. Better yet, you or your team put on a race in the summer.

If someone wants, I believe Candi has all the race data for years and years. Someone could get the data and break it down for the last 10 years or even more; maybe to a time when racing started in May and we can see if Craig?s theory is correct.

Now if gas prices continue, I think turnout will be more strictly dictated by proximity to Portland, Ashland, and Bend; you can kiss goodbye all the other factors. Has anyone thought of starting a Race bus, just Willamette Pass has a Ski bus? If we could get a bus to leave from Portland, Bend, and Ashland, I bet we could get more riders to show up to a race.

Shane
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
>
> The problem the promoters have is more people go to races before school gets
> out. Races have not done well in the summer months. I would say to break even
> you have to have 70-80 riders. We loss races when a promoter is paying to put on
> a race.
>
> Now if we changed the race series and limited to one race a month (maybe 2 in
> May and June) and really push the team side of things might get more riders out
> in the summer to do the series. If you really pushed the team compition they
> would push riders to ride more races. The problem you have is as a promoter you
> put out alot of money up front. It is hard to take a chance on a maybe. Another
> option is the summer promoters can raise the price to race. That way when only
> 50 riders show up they can still break even.Cliff McCann Pistis
> MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:38:23 -0700> From:
> masessa@charter.net> To: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike
> race number> > I agree with you Craig. I love cross more than anything, but when
> the season starts in the early winter I do not want to deal with cold, wet and
> mud at every race. I found myself skipping Horning's and Mudslinger simply
> because I didn't want to deal with all that goes with a wet, muddy race. > NOTE:
> this is my personal opinion so all you bashers can refrain from ripping me for
> being a wimp :-)> I love mtb racing in the warm/heat of the summer with dry
> trails. It's also way more fun for the racers and families to hang out and enjoy
> the day.> Dave Masessa> > ---- Craig Austin wrote: > >
> Maybe if the promoters would ever try STARTING the season a little later they'd
> find that it's not just a summertime vacation issue, it might be that we're
> tired of racing mountain bikes by then. It might be that we've replaced our
> derailleurs, chains, and cassettes a couple of times already and don't want to
> spend more on repairs. It might be that we've raced all spring and don't have
> particularly fond memories of mountain bike racing a certain course because it
> hasn't been fun (as fun as it could be under better conditions). > > > > Look
> back at the mountain bike "season" in the last five years. The first race of the
> year:> > > > 2003: March 29> > 2004: April 4> > 2005: March 26> > 2006: March
> 26> > 2007: March 25> > 2008: April 6> > > > You don't have good data about
> turnout in later races, because you've never tried moving the season back to
> find out. The complaint we used to hear from promoters was that the Bend
> mountain bike races got much better turnout. There's a reason for that; they
> were held in raceable conditions. Spring races can be great in Bend; if it's not
> snowing, the trails are very rideable. Not so on the west side.> > > > In 2005,
> the year Kevin only had 97 racers, that was already the 10th XC race of the year
> (not counting the TOE or creampuff). In 2005, we'd had four XC races by May 1. I
> don't know about the rest of you, but I love to race 'cross--just not on my
> mountain bike. I love mud, and I love muddy courses. And we get plenty of that
> in the fall and winter. Oregon is blessed with wonderful trails and great
> weather in the summer; I for one would love the opportunity to enjoy both at the
> same time. > > > > Even 'cross can only sustain the fever pitch for about 10
> weeks. Those guys have done a great job of giving the people what they want,
> when they want it. > > > > Start the mountain bike season in late May or early
> June; let the roadies have the Banana Belts and the early season stage races.
> Mountain biking is a summer thing. I know I'd be at a lot more races.> > > >
> Craig Austin> > > > ________________________________> > > > From:
> obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Randy Dreiling> > Sent: Thu 6/5/2008
> 1:11 PM> > To: kevin thompson; obra@list.obra.org> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mt
> Bike race number> > > > > > > > As a promoter of over 10 years.> > Kevin is 100%
> correct after June numbers drop big time, even if there is no other event the
> same day> > I think we have had this chat 20 times now.> > It has nothing to do
> with promoters, nothing to do with courses, nothing to do with cost...remember
> as I always point out it was the same cost to race the oakridge ftf last year as
> it was in 1992, even cheaper for JR's.> > The bottom line is people stop showing
> up after June> > We can go round and round about it and why it happens, but the
> answer is people stop coming.> > This is a BIG part of why there is no oakridge
> ftf this year, when I was not allowed by the forest service to host the event in
> May and instead I would have had the race in July I decided to pass for this
> year, as it sucks to put a bunch of effort out to host a race for 50-75 people
> no offense and at the end of the day loose money.> > I miss not seeing you
> racers this year, but I can't afford to loose money.> > As before think about
> the LONG list of races that are no longer around.> > Take care> > Randy
> Dreiling> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----> > From: kevin thompson
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org> > Sent: Thursday, June
> 5, 2008 12:56:06 PM> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Falls City Firecracker AWESOME> > >
> > John, and everyone else who is interested,> > > > I am speaking for myself,
> none of the handful of other mountain bike promoters have said they agree with
> anything I am going to say here.> > > > This year was my 6th year running the
> Firecracker. Of course I want more people there. It takes just as much work to
> put a race if 10 people show up, as it does if 200 show up.> > > > Several years
> back, Shane Young was doing the OBRA rep job at the mountain bike races and one
> of the things he did to entertain himself was to track attendance through out
> the season. The conclusion that he made was that after school got out in June,
> that fewer racers showed up to race. After reading John's email today, I went
> back to look at my history in the OBRA arcives. My data backs Shane's data up. I
> checked the old schedules to see what conficts where happening on the dates the
> Firecracker was happening. This is what I found.> > > > The most surprising to
> me was in 2005 the firecracer had an entire July weekend to its self (just what
> John seems to want). I had 97 racers.> > > > The complete history is:> > > >
> July 2003, Brownsville crit, and state track on the same day, 115 racers> > July
> 2004, Silverton rr, firecracker is the xc state champ, 89 racers> > July 2005,
> no compitition the entire weekend, 97 racers> > August 2006, Woodland rr, 75
> racers> > May 2007, Swan Island, 158 racers> > June 2008, Silverton, 170
> racers.> > > > The last 2 years, the race was before school got out and I almost
> doubled participation. > > > > I tried for 4 years to promote a race in the
> summer, it was not really worth my effort.> > > > Any thoughts?> > > > See you
> all at Pickets.> > > > Kevin> > > >
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