Greg Kell

Mike,

Thank you again for a thorough explanation.

Cheers,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

> I know how they do it. The people that do the registration enter the
> information digitally into something that creates the file format that
> FinishLynx requires, either registration specific software or a spreadsheet
> or database software that can output the CSV file needed. Registration
> communicates that with the finish line. The finish line just needs that
> information before the finish of the race. If the last race start is before
> the first race finish then this is pretty straight forward. Even if the
> last race start is after the first race finish it would be possible to use
> more than 1 event window but that would require that the finish know which
> field any rider started in before they arrive at the finish so they know
> which event window to record that finish in. If a finish is recorded in the
> wrong window the FinishLynx operator would need manually correct the data
> so that it appears in the correct field in results.
>
> There are "issues" that make this challenging to do for OBRA:
>
> - At OBRA races registration is usually done by volunteers and not in a
> digital format. Someone has to do the data entry. That person needs to
> understand the process/software used.
> - Operating FinishLynx with data files is a bit more complicated process.
> There are only a handful of the people that operate the camera at OBRA
> events that know how to do that.
> - Using multiple event windows is yet another layer of complexity.
>
> Mostly this comes down to differences in the system. In other states is
> FinishLynx is used it is operated by a finish line company that the race
> organizer hires. The finish line companies charge for this service, of
> course, often substantially large fees. The cost for this is overhead for
> the race organizer which they need to recover either from entry fees and/or
> sponsorship. Registration, or at least data entry, is done by that company.
> Those companies employees use FinishLynx more frequently so they are more
> facile with the software and operation of the camera.
>
> OBRA has taken a different tack. OBRA owns the finish line equipment. This
> equipment is made available to the race organizer at no additional cost
> beyond what they pay OBRA for the use of road signs, PA systems, display
> clocks, tables, tents, fencing, generators, etc. The fee for use of those
> items is a per rider fee so that costs, as much as possible, are kept
> variable rather than fixed to decrease the financial risk for the race
> organizer. At OBRA operation of the camera done by an official. This system
> keeps the costs to a minimum and makes the FinishLynx available to even
> small races. The trade off is the fancier stuff done by finish line
> companies is a bit more difficult to pull off.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Gregory via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> Mike, thanks for the explanation!
>>
>> Just an FYI - they were taking day-of registrations and I know many
>> registered 30 minutes prior to the race. There were some spelling mistakes,
>> but these people were included in the results. Would it be worth checking
>> with Erik/USAC on how they are able to accomplish this?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>

Mike Murray

I know how they do it. The people that do the registration enter the
information digitally into something that creates the file format that
FinishLynx requires, either registration specific software or a spreadsheet
or database software that can output the CSV file needed. Registration
communicates that with the finish line. The finish line just needs that
information before the finish of the race. If the last race start is before
the first race finish then this is pretty straight forward. Even if the
last race start is after the first race finish it would be possible to use
more than 1 event window but that would require that the finish know which
field any rider started in before they arrive at the finish so they know
which event window to record that finish in. If a finish is recorded in the
wrong window the FinishLynx operator would need manually correct the data
so that it appears in the correct field in results.

There are "issues" that make this challenging to do for OBRA:

- At OBRA races registration is usually done by volunteers and not in a
digital format. Someone has to do the data entry. That person needs to
understand the process/software used.
- Operating FinishLynx with data files is a bit more complicated process.
There are only a handful of the people that operate the camera at OBRA
events that know how to do that.
- Using multiple event windows is yet another layer of complexity.

Mostly this comes down to differences in the system. In other states is
FinishLynx is used it is operated by a finish line company that the race
organizer hires. The finish line companies charge for this service, of
course, often substantially large fees. The cost for this is overhead for
the race organizer which they need to recover either from entry fees and/or
sponsorship. Registration, or at least data entry, is done by that company.
Those companies employees use FinishLynx more frequently so they are more
facile with the software and operation of the camera.

OBRA has taken a different tack. OBRA owns the finish line equipment. This
equipment is made available to the race organizer at no additional cost
beyond what they pay OBRA for the use of road signs, PA systems, display
clocks, tables, tents, fencing, generators, etc. The fee for use of those
items is a per rider fee so that costs, as much as possible, are kept
variable rather than fixed to decrease the financial risk for the race
organizer. At OBRA operation of the camera done by an official. This system
keeps the costs to a minimum and makes the FinishLynx available to even
small races. The trade off is the fancier stuff done by finish line
companies is a bit more difficult to pull off.

Mike Murray

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Gregory via OBRA
wrote:

> Mike, thanks for the explanation!
>
> Just an FYI - they were taking day-of registrations and I know many
> registered 30 minutes prior to the race. There were some spelling mistakes,
> but these people were included in the results. Would it be worth checking
> with Erik/USAC on how they are able to accomplish this?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Greg Kell

Ah, right. Got it, thanks.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Steven Beardsley
wrote:

> USAC does not produce those results, the folks are GC Racing do.
>
> http://gcracingllc.com/
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Gregory via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> Mike, thanks for the explanation!
>>
>> Just an FYI - they were taking day-of registrations and I know many
>> registered 30 minutes prior to the race. There were some spelling mistakes,
>> but these people were included in the results. Would it be worth checking
>> with Erik/USAC on how they are able to accomplish this?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>

Steven Beardsley

USAC does not produce those results, the folks are GC Racing do.

http://gcracingllc.com/

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Gregory via OBRA
wrote:

> Mike, thanks for the explanation!
>
> Just an FYI - they were taking day-of registrations and I know many
> registered 30 minutes prior to the race. There were some spelling mistakes,
> but these people were included in the results. Would it be worth checking
> with Erik/USAC on how they are able to accomplish this?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Gregory

Mike, thanks for the explanation!

Just an FYI - they were taking day-of registrations and I know many registered 30 minutes prior to the race. There were some spelling mistakes, but these people were included in the results. Would it be worth checking with Erik/USAC on how they are able to accomplish this?

Mike Murray

A technical point about these results; they are formatted in the way that
results would be produced if they are done directly from the FinishLynx
software. OBRA has the capability to do that but in order to accomplish
that we would need to have race registration information in a digital
format well prior to recording the finish of any race that will need to be
included in the event window being used. For most races this is a challenge
for us as we generally get the registration in a handwritten format after
the start of the race. For races where there is only one field on the road
at a time the data entry could be done prior to the finish but it gets more
complicated for races with multiple fields on the road. For an example, at
PoC in order to output results directly from FinishLynx registration for
all of at least the morning races would have needed to be closed in
sufficient time to do the data entry and start the recording for the first
race as the same event window needed to be used to record all the fields
due to the overlapping of participants. Basically this would kill the
possibility of day of race entry or at least require closing registration a
considerable time before the start of the race. We generally prefer to
allow people to sign up at the last minute so that we don't have to turn
away people that show up entry fee in hand and ready to race prior to the
start. There would also need to be some training of officials as to how to
operate the software.

In order to get around this issue we generally use an Excel sheet that
imports the data output from FinishLynx. More people already know how to
use Excel, the data entry method is simpler and the race registration
information can be input at any point prior to producing results. The catch
is that we need to modify the sheets we have developed to also import the
finish time data, something that we had not previously done for single day
road races. It is not rocket science but it also is not quite as simple as
adding another column to the spreadsheet. We are working on it and will
hopefully have something soon. Once it is done I am hoping there will be a
warm response to compensate those that are working on this without other
forms of compensation.

Mike Murray

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Josh Anderson via OBRA wrote:

> It's cool that there's times posted with these results, so I can see what
> groups ended in breakaways vs. sprints
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

d..@bicyclerepairman.us

I nominate Ron for race journalist.

On 2017-03-26 20:32, Ron via OBRA wrote:
> It is cool to know that a break got away.
>
> It's also cool to know that either the first break stuck or that
> several attempts failed; and that they got away either early or late;
> and that they got away together or joined the break individually; and
> either wind, hills, or attacks created the break; and that the field
> either chased or didn't; and that their teams protected them or
> didn't; and that everyone contributed or some sat on; and that they
> either came to the line together or someone attacked the break and was
> caught at the line.
>
> Yep, I like seeing the split times, too, so I know what happened in the
> race.
>
>
>
>> On Mar 26, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Josh Anderson via OBRA
>> wrote:
>>
>> It's cool that there's times posted with these results, so I can see
>> what groups ended in breakaways vs. sprints
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron

It is cool to know that a break got away.

It's also cool to know that either the first break stuck or that several attempts failed; and that they got away either early or late; and that they got away together or joined the break individually; and either wind, hills, or attacks created the break; and that the field either chased or didn't; and that their teams protected them or didn't; and that everyone contributed or some sat on; and that they either came to the line together or someone attacked the break and was caught at the line.

Yep, I like seeing the split times, too, so I know what happened in the race.

> On Mar 26, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Josh Anderson via OBRA wrote:
>
> It's cool that there's times posted with these results, so I can see what groups ended in breakaways vs. sprints
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Josh Anderson

It's cool that there's times posted with these results, so I can see what groups ended in breakaways vs. sprints

Erik Anderson

Hey Everyone,

Thank you for coming and racing IVRR today. The weather was great. We
also want to give the volunteer team from Olympia Orthopaedic Associates
Cycling Team a big shout out for helping us put on the best race of the
year.

Results are posted.

IVRR Results

http://www.53eleven.com/independence-valley-road-race.html

Our next race is the Ridge Cirucit Race on Saturday April 15th

The Ridge Info

http://www.53eleven.com/the-ridge.html

Thanks,

Erik