Brad Davidson

I don't think a rule change is necessary. I get why promoters want to do things like leader jerseys and series podiums - it's fun to be recognized and rewarded for your skill - but look at how that's worked out for GPRM. I'm just a lowly B newbie, but it feels like everyone who's received a leader jersey in a lower category has been upgraded in short order - sometimes before they even get a chance to wear it in a race.

The long and short of it is that you don't get to win much, and I think that's how it's intended to be. Just a few podiums and you are kicked up to the next category. If you're good, and racing even half of what's available in the Portland metro area, that can happen in just a week or two. If promoters kept that in mind, it might feel a little bit less like folks are getting punished for their success.

-Brad

Tre

I'm really not sure what winning the Beginner category does for someone, but it certainly doesn't do anything for the rest of the newbies that are getting trounced. Achieving an upgrade or two over the course of a few seasons is way more of an accomplishment than winning the Master's C in the GPRM. And anyway, if you haven't figured it out yet, cross isn't really about winning. There's always a race within the race. Get to the highest level you can and once you're there, figure out who's racing around you and work those fine details to compete with them. That extra interval during the week, getting to the lowest tire pressure you can, finding the right gear ratio, get faster on the dis/remounts, do some training on stairs, learn to ride the sand better, drop 5 pounds... the list is endless in this sport and that's what really matters and what makes it fun.

Candi Murray

This has come up multiple times. And been voted down. When a rider earns an upgrade they should move. It may not seem fair to that rider but we are looking at the entire membership and it fair to more people to ensure that riders are in the category that they earn. It was suggested that prizes go out on a raffle basis or for individual nights and not the overall.

C

From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Dan Anderson via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:50 PM
To: Scott Mares; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] rule change discussion

Nah. For reasons stated previously, since it seems to come up every year.

The point of upgrading is to put people into the correct category. The point of winning a B or C series is.....I don't know. Personally, I think promoters should give prizes to people who earn an upgrade at their race, rather than to whoever podiums in the C field.

_____

From: Scott Mares via OBRA
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] rule change discussion

Hi OBRA Land
I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading. What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series? The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair.... I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this. But it would seem to me that this would make more sense. other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning... I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...

Thoughts?
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Dan Anderson

Nah.  For reasons stated previously, since it seems to come up every year.  
The point of upgrading is to put people into the correct category.  The point of winning a B or C series is.....I don't know.  Personally, I think promoters should give prizes to people who earn an upgrade at their race, rather than to whoever podiums in the C field. 
From: Scott Mares via OBRA
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] rule change discussion

Hi OBRA Land
I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading.  What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series?  The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair....  I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this.  But it would seem to me that this would make more sense.  other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning...  I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...

Thoughts?
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EAL

Since I'm not in any danger of winning any series in the foreseeable future (unless I outlive all the M60+) or getting an upgrade (what does an M60+ upgrade to?) I have no dog in this hunt.  So in my unbiased opinion I'd have to agree with Scott/John. It's a little more complicated, but a lot more fair.  

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 7:55 PM, Stewart Campbell via OBRA wrote:

| There was talk about this a couple of years ago and some one made a valid point against this. But I forgot who and what their point was.However, I agree with you. Technically the only way to win a series is to come in 7 th or 8th place every race.  I attempted this in 2013, but could not finish the series due to family.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
| From:"Scott Mares via OBRA"
Date:Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 6:25 PM
Subject:[OBRA Chat] rule change discussion

Hi OBRA Land
I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading.  What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series?  The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair....  I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this.  But it would seem to me that this would make more sense.  other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning...  I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...

Thoughts?
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|

|

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Stewart Campbell

I like John's prereg series idea!

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"John Wilger via OBRA"
Date:Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 7:10 PM
Subject:Re: [OBRA Chat] rule change discussion

Or, perhaps, if you preregister for a series, you will continue to
race in the category in which you start the series, even if you are
generally upgraded along the way. The upgrades would take effect for
any other races during that time. Promotors might like this, since it
would encourage full-series registrations, and it seems to me like it
would be a clean way to determine when staying in the same category is
allowed.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Scott Mares via OBRA
wrote:
> Hi OBRA Land
> I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading.  What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series?  The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair....  I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this.  But it would seem to me that this would make more sense.  other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning...  I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...
>
> Thoughts?
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Stewart Campbell

There was talk about this a couple of years ago and some one made a valid point against this. But I forgot who and what their point was.

However, I agree with you. Technically the only way to win a series is to come in 7 th or 8th place every race.  I attempted this in 2013, but could not finish the series due to family.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Scott Mares via OBRA"
Date:Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 6:25 PM
Subject:[OBRA Chat] rule change discussion

Hi OBRA Land
I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading.  What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series?  The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair....  I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this.  But it would seem to me that this would make more sense.  other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning...  I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...

Thoughts?
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John Wilger

Or, perhaps, if you preregister for a series, you will continue to
race in the category in which you start the series, even if you are
generally upgraded along the way. The upgrades would take effect for
any other races during that time. Promotors might like this, since it
would encourage full-series registrations, and it seems to me like it
would be a clean way to determine when staying in the same category is
allowed.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Scott Mares via OBRA
wrote:
> Hi OBRA Land
> I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading. What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series? The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair.... I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this. But it would seem to me that this would make more sense. other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning... I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...
>
> Thoughts?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Scott Mares

Hi OBRA Land
I wanted to throw out there an idea about upgrading. What about timing the mandatory upgrades at the end of race series? or between race series? The reason Im saying this is that I think that if some one works hard on winning a series and then gets a mandatory upgrade one race before the final race I don't think that is entirely fair.... I'm sure that there are going to be exceptions to this. But it would seem to me that this would make more sense. other wise you could work the points system so you don't get enough points to be upgraded but enough to win after the leaders have been upgraded... Thus winning by not winning... I would like to say this would not apply to sandbagging...

Thoughts?