John Schmidt

Since I ride in around in Portland a lot where there are lots of
pedestrians and other cyclists, long long ago, I put a bell on my bicycle
(s). A pleasant bell, not one of those awful single DING noises. : ) .

But I would think that if you are in a organized ride, and riding slow,
that people passing constantly is to be expected. I think I would rather
NOT have people constantly calling out. And if you a faster rider, it
would get pretty old having to say "on your left" every 10 seconds for a
couple hours. But I don't know, since I have nice pleasant bell I do
tend to ring it more often then saying "coming by", it is easier to do.

I always try to pass on the left, But occasionally I have had people
riding way left. So then what do you do?. I still try to pass on the
left.

Now I like to stay right, and sometimes as I get ready to pass on the left
I have had people who like to ride out more in the road, move left on me I
assume opening up the right for me/ trying to guess where I am rather than
just sticking. Disconcerting and Strangely becoming more common...

Now with Cars, even if I have a bike lane i still try to pass on the left,
or more often stay behind them. (it's a death wish literally to
_hope_that all car drivers are checking their rearview mirrors before
turning right. With phones its enough to hope they are seeing (yes seeing,
not just looking) out the front window ! )

Every-day, every damn day that i ride home into washing county, i have n!$#
and i#$#! , etc, folk on their phones and turning right without signaling.
Not signaling is a huge pet peeve, and if I were doing traffic enforcement
everyone that didn’t signal would get a big ticket ! The fancier the car
the more likely.

You know, At least announce the direction you're pointing the gun so People
can duck / drive defensibly. Otherwise is it intentional??? (Btw, PDX is
the only place I have had car drivers intentionally swerve at me. )

If i can't get up in front of everyone before the light turns green, I get
off the road and wait for the line of cars to clear. And btw, you can't
just stop, you have to get off the road, even if you are 40 feet from the
intersection, guaranteed someone will get confused (there is alway a mix of
overcautious too polite / "no you go" types in among the impatient
drivers and the impatient will blame you regardless)

At least in Portland I am usually not the only person riding (commuting)
along as I almost always am in Washington county.

Now on my Mountain bike, I don't have a bell yet. But for pedestrians I
usually say good morning and GET OFF my bicycle and walk past them or get
off the trail, with a "i need a rest break anyway". The trails are just
too narrow. And too many people with guns and knives : ) (especially now
with an increased perceived cougar threat.)

On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 3:00 AM My Computer via OBRA
wrote:

> I typically do it, but there is a 50/50 chance when I call out "left" the
> person goes left (instead of right) making the situation worse.
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:32 PM bennett.jack@yahoo.com via OBRA <
> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello OBRAland,
>>
>> I have a question about cycling behavior that perhaps someone out there
>> can answer. I've done Cycle Oregon a number of times, and there's a
>> persistent phenomenon that puzzles me: the failure of stronger riders to
>> give warning when they blow by within close range of slower riders. This
>> happens All. The. Time. I'm a steady rider with experience in pacelines and
>> pelotons, yet I'm still startled when someone speeds by me a few MPH
>> faster, elbow-to-elbow and with no warning. I can only imagine how
>> disconcerting this is to someone who's less confident on their bike in a
>> group. And it seems to me that it's just inviting disaster if the slower
>> rider doesn't strictly hold their line. Also, aside from safety issues, it
>> just seems like good cycling manners.
>>
>> So my question is this: Why do some folks find it hard to simply say "On
>> your left" or "Left side" when overtaking at close range? I don't
>> understand what's difficult about it. Is there some real justification
>> for neglecting this warning? Or is it uncool, too much trouble, annoying to
>> say repeatedly, or what? I'm sure there are some in OBRAland who do Cycle
>> Oregon, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> .................................
>> Jack Bennett
>> bennett.jack@yahoo.com
>> .................................
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
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> obra@list.obra.org
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>

Dan Anderson

I don't think it's the lack of verbal warning that's the problem, it's the lack of space.  I always give 5-6 feet of passing space, and if there are cars in the lane preventing this, I just wait until there is space, and then I give a gentle 'hello' as I'm going by.    
Dan
On Sunday, September 23, 2018, 3:32:15 PM PDT, bennett.jack@yahoo.com via OBRA wrote:

Hello OBRAland,
I have a question about cycling behavior that perhaps someone out there can answer. I've done Cycle Oregon a number of times, and there's a persistent phenomenon that puzzles me: the failure of stronger riders to give warning when they blow by within close range of slower riders. This happens All. The. Time. I'm a steady rider with experience in pacelines and pelotons, yet I'm still startled when someone speeds by me a few MPH faster, elbow-to-elbow and with no warning. I can only imagine how disconcerting this is to someone who's less confident on their bike in a group. And it seems to me that it's just inviting disaster if the slower rider doesn't strictly hold their line. Also, aside from safety issues, it just seems like good cycling manners.
So my question is this: Why do some folks find it hard to simply say "On your left" or "Left side" when overtaking at close range? I don't understand what's difficult about it. Is there some real justification for neglecting this warning? Or is it uncool, too much trouble, annoying to say repeatedly, or what? I'm sure there are some in OBRAland who do Cycle Oregon, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this. 

Thanks.
Jack
.................................  Jack Bennett  bennett.jack@yahoo.com .................................
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

My Computer

I typically do it, but there is a 50/50 chance when I call out "left" the
person goes left (instead of right) making the situation worse.

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:32 PM bennett.jack@yahoo.com via OBRA <
obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

> Hello OBRAland,
>
> I have a question about cycling behavior that perhaps someone out there
> can answer. I've done Cycle Oregon a number of times, and there's a
> persistent phenomenon that puzzles me: the failure of stronger riders to
> give warning when they blow by within close range of slower riders. This
> happens All. The. Time. I'm a steady rider with experience in pacelines and
> pelotons, yet I'm still startled when someone speeds by me a few MPH
> faster, elbow-to-elbow and with no warning. I can only imagine how
> disconcerting this is to someone who's less confident on their bike in a
> group. And it seems to me that it's just inviting disaster if the slower
> rider doesn't strictly hold their line. Also, aside from safety issues, it
> just seems like good cycling manners.
>
> So my question is this: Why do some folks find it hard to simply say "On
> your left" or "Left side" when overtaking at close range? I don't
> understand what's difficult about it. Is there some real justification
> for neglecting this warning? Or is it uncool, too much trouble, annoying to
> say repeatedly, or what? I'm sure there are some in OBRAland who do Cycle
> Oregon, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jack
>
> .................................
> Jack Bennett
> bennett.jack@yahoo.com
> .................................
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

bennett.jack@yahoo.com

Thanks, Ron. Cycle Oregon does make an effort. There's a Route and Safety announcement from the main stage every evening. On the first night they emphasize that riders should give warning when overtaking, and they remind people during the week. They've done this for years. This is among other requests to obey traffic laws, ride at most two abreast, keep pacelines to a reasonable size, etc. Unfortunately, a noticeable percentage of riders don't take these requests personally.
.................................  Jack Bennett  bennett.jack@yahoo.com .................................

On Sunday, September 23, 2018, 5:09:37 PM PDT, ron s. wrote:


You summed it up when you mentioned good manners.  Courtesy is often not on the radar of riders so focused on themselves.  I have had the same thing happen to me when riding hwy 30 during the Seattle to Portland weekend in the past.  I understand narrow margins out on the highway during rides like that, but still a shout out warning is more safe.  I find lack of courtesy rare when racing in our OBRA events.  Lots of strong riders who either give tons of room when passing or appropriate warning.  Most often when I get passed, I get a shout out of encouragement.  I think the events you describe in Cycle Oregon will not change unless that organization makes an effort to help change behaviors.  Just my opinion on this of course. ron

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: bennett.jack@yahoo.com via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2018 3:32 PM
To: OBRA Chat
Subject: [OBRA Chat] "On your left!"

Hello OBRAland,

I have a question about cycling behavior that perhaps someone out there can answer. I've done Cycle Oregon a number of times, and there's a persistent phenomenon that puzzles me: the failure of stronger riders to give warning when they blow by within close range of slower riders. This happens All. The. Time. I'm a steady rider with experience in pacelines and pelotons, yet I'm still startled when someone speeds by me a few MPH faster, elbow-to-elbow and with no warning. I can only imagine how disconcerting this is to someone who's less confident on their bike in a group. And it seems to me that it's just inviting disaster if the slower rider doesn't strictly hold their line. Also, aside from safety issues, it just seems like good cycling manners.

So my question is this: Why do some folks find it hard to simply say "On your left" or "Left side" when overtaking at close range? I don't understand what's difficult about it. Is there some real justification for neglecting this warning? Or is it uncool, too much trouble, annoying to say repeatedly, or what? I'm sure there are some in OBRAland who do Cycle Oregon, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this. 

Thanks.

Jack

................................. 

Jack Bennett 

bennett.jack@yahoo.com 

.................................

Jeff Maurer

I rode CO this year and my perception is that riders were pretty good about communicating passes. Of course I ride with a mirror so most passes are old news by the time they say, ���on your left!���. (Dorky, I know but jesus-palomino would you drive without rear view mirrors on your car?!)

For myself, I have to admit that I tend try to be more friendly and subtle with my, ���on your left���, unless I have the sense that I���m passing someone that���s exhibiting frightening/unpredictable/noob behavior. And, there are times when I���m passing a lot of people on a hill that I may not say it to every rider. But I also typically pass with 2-3 bike widths rather than bar-to-bar, and passing with a 2 mph delta seems less risky for the most part versus passing at 30-40mph (where I give a huge/wide berth and lots of verbal warning).

My observation of CO is that roughly 20% of the riders are either newbie���s, those that lack self-awareness, or pro tour wanna-be���s. The noobs might surprise you with an unpredictable veer. Those without self-awareness of their place in the universe might be very capable riders, but might also wheel out into you as they start up from a rest stop or lay a patch of rubber, coming to a complete stop with no warning right in front of you so suddenly that you poop your chamois. The pro tour wanna-be���s have the full Rapha kit and a radio in their ear (sic iPhone headphones) as if they���re waiting for Johan Bruyneel to provide race strategy for Day 4 of Cycle Oregon (���Proceed at full pace to the beer tent, your domestique will meet you with porter and pizza!���) . Both the pro tour and lack-of-self-awareness riders often ride 2-3 abreast so that they can chat while log trucks attempt to pass (god-a-mighty, you���re not building any equity for cyclists with the automotively-inclined population).

What I did notice this year is that the riders that yelled, ���car back!��� the loudest were almost always those that were executing passes at the same time that cars were overtaking the group. As if, ���car back!��� are safe words that ward off potential car/bike collisions, or if yelled loud enough at the riders you���re passing it will blow them out of the way so you can merge right. I get that it���s hard on the ego to let up on the throttle, merge with slower riders, and wait for a clearing to pass, but it���s the right thing to do.

Oh, and interesting development this year versus prior years ��� the Bluetooth speaker people. Because the inspiring music that you love should be music that everyone loves.

ron s.

You summed it up when you mentioned good manners. Courtesy is often not on the radar of riders so focused on themselves. I have had the same thing happen to me when riding hwy 30 during the Seattle to Portland weekend in the past. I understand narrow margins out on the highway during rides like that, but still a shout out warning is more safe. I find lack of courtesy rare when racing in our OBRA events. Lots of strong riders who either give tons of room when passing or appropriate warning. Most often when I get passed, I get a shout out of encouragement. I think the events you describe in Cycle Oregon will not change unless that organization makes an effort to help change behaviors. Just my opinion on this of course. ron

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: bennett.jack@yahoo.com via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2018 3:32 PM
To: OBRA Chat
Subject: [OBRA Chat] "On your left!"

Hello OBRAland,

I have a question about cycling behavior that perhaps someone out there can answer. I've done Cycle Oregon a number of times, and there's a persistent phenomenon that puzzles me: the failure of stronger riders to give warning when they blow by within close range of slower riders. This happens All. The. Time. I'm a steady rider with experience in pacelines and pelotons, yet I'm still startled when someone speeds by me a few MPH faster, elbow-to-elbow and with no warning. I can only imagine how disconcerting this is to someone who's less confident on their bike in a group. And it seems to me that it's just inviting disaster if the slower rider doesn't strictly hold their line. Also, aside from safety issues, it just seems like good cycling manners.

So my question is this: Why do some folks find it hard to simply say "On your left" or "Left side" when overtaking at close range? I don't understand what's difficult about it. Is there some real justification for neglecting this warning? Or is it uncool, too much trouble, annoying to say repeatedly, or what? I'm sure there are some in OBRAland who do Cycle Oregon, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this. 

Thanks.

Jack

................................. 
Jack Bennett 
bennett.jack@yahoo.com 
.................................

bennett.jack@yahoo.com

Hello OBRAland,
I have a question about cycling behavior that perhaps someone out there can answer. I've done Cycle Oregon a number of times, and there's a persistent phenomenon that puzzles me: the failure of stronger riders to give warning when they blow by within close range of slower riders. This happens All. The. Time. I'm a steady rider with experience in pacelines and pelotons, yet I'm still startled when someone speeds by me a few MPH faster, elbow-to-elbow and with no warning. I can only imagine how disconcerting this is to someone who's less confident on their bike in a group. And it seems to me that it's just inviting disaster if the slower rider doesn't strictly hold their line. Also, aside from safety issues, it just seems like good cycling manners.
So my question is this: Why do some folks find it hard to simply say "On your left" or "Left side" when overtaking at close range? I don't understand what's difficult about it. Is there some real justification for neglecting this warning? Or is it uncool, too much trouble, annoying to say repeatedly, or what? I'm sure there are some in OBRAland who do Cycle Oregon, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this. 

Thanks.
Jack
.................................  Jack Bennett  bennett.jack@yahoo.com .................................