Steven Westberg

Bring back the fixies!!! Let them race first when numbers of racers are smaller.

Mike Richardson

But there IS a cross-specific bar end rule:

7.10.2 Bar ends
Bar ends that face forward or upward are not permitted

Sure, a rule-stickler could point them back and/or down but then they hands would just slip off.

Mike

Devin Bailly

You violated rule 1 by creating rule 2.

On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 5:26 PM jon.ragsdale via OBRA
wrote:

>
> No skinsuits? Why?
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jay via OBRA
> Date: 11/5/17 4:26 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross Rules
>
> Rules:
>
> 1). Don't be a dick!
> 2). No skinsuits
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

jon.ragsdale

No skinsuits?  Why?

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------From: Jay via OBRA Date: 11/5/17 4:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: obra@list.obra.org Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross Rules
Rules:

1). Don't be a dick!
2). No skinsuits
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jay

Rules:

1). Don't be a dick!
2). No skinsuits

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

MIght be a good kit for the Flying M.... You could be the Flying G
----- Original Message -----
From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: rondot@spiritone.com ; shane.young@comcast.net ; t.hoffman10@verizon.net ; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

I guess I should bring a red cape and a lance.

----Original Message----
From: rondot@spiritone.com
Date: 10/05/2006 8:42 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", , ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

?
I thought cross was the american version of the running of the bulls... thus the bar ends.... george. that bull got ya!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: gschreckchat@hughes.net ; shane.young@comcast.net ; t.hoffman10@verizon.net ; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

By the way, I do not care what bikes anyone uses, my snide comment nothwithstanding. I just do not want to get hit in the rear by a bar end again. It hurt a lot. It partly is the price of not being faster.

----Original Message----
From: gschreckchat@hughes.net
Date: 10/04/2006 10:25 PM
To: , ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

No, but I am sure you can afford an allen wrench and remove you bar ends to assist is the safetly of others.

----Original Message----
From: shane.young@comcast.net
Date: 10/04/2006 12:21 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Are you offering to buy for all those that don't have one and can't afford one?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: GEORGE SCHRECK

> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman1 0@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant dang er for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 1 0/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be dif ferent or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~ ~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

GEORGE SCHRECK

I guess I should bring a red cape and a lance.

----Original Message----
From: rondot@spiritone.com
Date: 10/05/2006 8:42 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", , ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

?

I thought cross was the american version of the running of the bulls... thus the bar ends.... george. that bull got ya!
ron

----- Original Message -----
From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: gschreckchat@hughes.net ; shane.young@comcast.net ; t.hoffman10@verizon.net ; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

By the way, I do not care what bikes anyone uses, my snide comment nothwithstanding. I just do not want to get hit in the rear by a bar end again. It hurt a lot. It partly is the price of not being faster.

----Original Message----
From: gschreckchat@hughes.net
Date: 10/04/2006 10:25 PM
To: , ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

No, but I am sure you can afford an allen wrench and remove you bar ends to assist is the safetly of others.

----Original Message----
From: shane.young@comcast.net
Date: 10/04/2006 12:21 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Are you offering to buy for all those that don't have one and can't afford one?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: GEORGE SCHRECK

> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman1 0@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant dang er for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 1 0/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be dif ferent or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~ ~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I thought cross was the american version of the running of the bulls... thus the bar ends.... george. that bull got ya!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: gschreckchat@hughes.net ; shane.young@comcast.net ; t.hoffman10@verizon.net ; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

By the way, I do not care what bikes anyone uses, my snide comment nothwithstanding. I just do not want to get hit in the rear by a bar end again. It hurt a lot. It partly is the price of not being faster.

----Original Message----
From: gschreckchat@hughes.net
Date: 10/04/2006 10:25 PM
To: , ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

No, but I am sure you can afford an allen wrench and remove you bar ends to assist is the safetly of others.

----Original Message----
From: shane.young@comcast.net
Date: 10/04/2006 12:21 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Are you offering to buy for all those that don't have one and can't afford one?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: GEORGE SCHRECK

> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman1 0@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant dang er for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 1 0/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be dif ferent or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~ ~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

GEORGE SCHRECK

By the way, I do not care what bikes anyone uses, my snide comment nothwithstanding. I just do not want to get hit in the rear by a bar end again. It hurt a lot. It partly is the price of not being faster.

----Original Message----
From: gschreckchat@hughes.net
Date: 10/04/2006 10:25 PM
To: , ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

No, but I am sure you can afford an allen wrench and remove you bar ends to assist is the safetly of others.

----Original Message----
From: shane.young@comcast.net
Date: 10/04/2006 12:21 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Are you offering to buy for all those that don't have one and can't afford one?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: GEORGE SCHRECK

> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman1 0@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant dang er for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 1 0/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be dif ferent or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~ ~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

GEORGE SCHRECK

No, but I am sure you can afford an allen wrench and remove you bar ends to assist is the safetly of others.

----Original Message----
From: shane.young@comcast.net
Date: 10/04/2006 12:21 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", ,
Cc:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Are you offering to buy for all those that don't have one and can't afford one?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: GEORGE SCHRECK

> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman1 0@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant dang er for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 1 0/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be dif ferent or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~ ~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

david baker

Thanks Mike,
I am glad OBRA encourages participation.

Untill they come out with a cross bike with front and rear suspension, disc
brakes, and flat bars I am not into buying a cross bike. That would just be
a mountain bike... or would it? If a tree falls on a cross course does it
become a mountain bike race?
I won't bother asking about my shoe mounted tire shredders, razor blade
gloves, and bag o tacks. They worked well in Bend but I'll leave them behind
:)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Murray"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

> USAC considers cross to be a type of road racing and this makes extensions
> illegal under their rule 1J1(d). Special rules for specific event, such as
> excluding mountain bikes, could be done under 1B3.
>
> Under UCI rules 1.3.022 d) all handlebars except regular drop bars are
> prohibited in races other than TTs and mountain bike races. I have been
> told that flat bars have been used by some riders at international cross
> events. This is not surprising as UCI tends to be capricious at enforcing
> their rules.
>
> As in many cases OBRA rules differ from USAC and UCI rules. This is done
> intentionally as those 2 organizations tend towards rules that inhibit
> rather than encourage participation.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 09:55 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
>
> I assume it is because there is more chance of a rider pile-up in a cross
> race than a mtn bike race. But, I couldn't find anything in the UCI rules
> or
> USGP rules regarding this. However, I have seen it printed on many fliers
> at
> cross races stating that mtn bikes are legal with no forward facing bar
> ends. You learn something new every day. Dave
>
>
> ---- Mike Murray wrote:
>> If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races
>> why would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
>> specific rules for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those
>> rules only state:
>>
>> "9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
>> Handlebars that allow for support of the forearms may not be used in
>> mass start events. Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and
>> must not have sharp or jagged ends."
>>
>> In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone
>> that thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be
>> special cross bike rules they can present that proposal by the
>> mechanism at the very beginning of the rules.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>> On Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>>
>>
>> Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons.
>> Even if it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
>>
>> ---- david baker wrote:
>> > Hey all,
>> > I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been
>> > ok
>> > with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I was
>> > thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The message
>> > is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
>> > george 073.jpg
>> >
>> > Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
>> > prevent
>> > sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
> e-mail
>> security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

masessa@charter.net

Last I checked my brake levers and pedals pointed out not forward.

---- GEORGE SCHRECK wrote:
> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman10@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant danger for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 10/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

USAC considers cross to be a type of road racing and this makes extensions
illegal under their rule 1J1(d). Special rules for specific event, such as
excluding mountain bikes, could be done under 1B3.

Under UCI rules 1.3.022 d) all handlebars except regular drop bars are
prohibited in races other than TTs and mountain bike races. I have been
told that flat bars have been used by some riders at international cross
events. This is not surprising as UCI tends to be capricious at enforcing
their rules.

As in many cases OBRA rules differ from USAC and UCI rules. This is done
intentionally as those 2 organizations tend towards rules that inhibit
rather than encourage participation.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 09:55 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

I assume it is because there is more chance of a rider pile-up in a cross
race than a mtn bike race. But, I couldn't find anything in the UCI rules or
USGP rules regarding this. However, I have seen it printed on many fliers at
cross races stating that mtn bikes are legal with no forward facing bar
ends. You learn something new every day. Dave

---- Mike Murray wrote:
> If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races
> why would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific rules for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those
> rules only state:
>
> "9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> Handlebars that allow for support of the forearms may not be used in
> mass start events. Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and
> must not have sharp or jagged ends."
>
> In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone
> that thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be
> special cross bike rules they can present that proposal by the
> mechanism at the very beginning of the rules.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
>
> Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons.
> Even if it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
>
> ---- david baker wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been
> > ok
> > with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I was
> > thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The message
> > is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
> > george 073.jpg
> >
> > Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> > prevent
> > sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
e-mail
> security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

shane.young@comcast.net

Are you offering to buy for all those that don't have one and can't afford one?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: GEORGE SCHRECK

> Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
> that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
> hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
> motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.
>
> The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
> function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
> are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
> brakes, not the bar ends.
>
> I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.
>
> This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
> bike.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: t.hoffman10@verizon.net
> Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
> To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
> Cc:
> Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
> No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
> 4
> sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
> on my
> cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
> necessary?
> Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> ~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
> ~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant danger for cyclocross races.
> There
> ~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
> and
> run
> ~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
> fields
> ~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
> som
> ~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
> if
> ~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
> races,
> ~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
> allowed
> ~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
> why
> ~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
> endeavor to
> do
> ~~)(~~so.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~----Original Message----
> ~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
> ~~)(~~Date: 10/03/2006 9:46 PM
> ~~)(~~To:
> ~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
> races
> ~~)(~~why
> ~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
> specific
> ~~)(~~rules
> ~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
> ~~)(~~state:
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
> ~~)(~~Handlebars that
> ~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
> ~~)(~~events.
> ~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
> sharp
> ~~)(~~or
> ~~)(~~jagged ends."
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
> anyone
> ~~)(~~that
> ~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be
> special
> ~~)(~~cross
> ~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
> the very
> ~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Mike Murray
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
> org]
> ~~)(~~On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> ~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
> reasons.
> ~~)(~~Even if
> ~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
> ~~)(~~> Hey all,
> ~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
> been
> ~~)(~~ok
> ~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
> I
> ~~)(~~was
> ~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
> ~~)(~~message
> ~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
> ~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
> ~~)(~~>
> ~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
> ~~)(~~prevent
> ~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
> your
> ~~)(~~e-mail
> ~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

GEORGE SCHRECK

Great logic. Other things are dangerous, so lets allow something else
that is dangerous. Also, it is more likely that the force of getting
hit with a bar end will be greater than a pedal given the general
motion of a bike so they are more dangerous.

The comparison to brakes make no sense. Brakes are basic to the
function of a bike, for stoping, slowing down and for safety. Bar ends
are not necessary for the functioning of a bicycle. You need the
brakes, not the bar ends.

I agree that if they are curved then there is no issue.

This is a cross race. Lose the bar ends, or better yet, get a cross
bike.

----Original Message----
From: t.hoffman10@verizon.net
Date: 10/04/2006 10:02 AM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK",
Cc:
Subj: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat
4
sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in
on my
cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not
necessary?
Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
org]
On
~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant danger for cyclocross races.
There
~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers
and
run
~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the
fields
~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped
som
~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous
if
~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross
races,
~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are
allowed
~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see
why
~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major
endeavor to
do
~~)(~~so.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~----Original Message----
~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
~~)(~~Date: 10/03/2006 9:46 PM
~~)(~~To:
~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
~~)(~~
~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike
races
~~)(~~why
~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have
specific
~~)(~~rules
~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
~~)(~~state:
~~)(~~
~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
~~)(~~Handlebars that
~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
~~)(~~events.
~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have
sharp
~~)(~~or
~~)(~~jagged ends."
~~)(~~
~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is
anyone
~~)(~~that
~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be
special
~~)(~~cross
~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at
the very
~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Mike Murray
~~)(~~
~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.
org]
~~)(~~On
~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety
reasons.
~~)(~~Even if
~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
~~)(~~> Hey all,
~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have
been
~~)(~~ok
~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley?
I
~~)(~~was
~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
~~)(~~message
~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
~~)(~~prevent
~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check
your
~~)(~~e-mail
~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Thomas Hoffman

No less dangerous than a brake lever, or pedal, or a barrier or a cat 4
sprinting for 15th place. I use them the same way I use my hoods in on my
cross bike, for leverage, for comfort, etc. Are brake levers not necessary?
Keep plugs in the end, and your fine.

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
~~)(~~Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
~~)(~~Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:42 AM
~~)(~~To: mike.murray@obra.org
~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Actually, they are a signficant danger for cyclocross races. There
~~)(~~tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers and
run
~~)(~~up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the fields
~~)(~~make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped som
~~)(~~there is a lot of passing.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous if
~~)(~~there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross races,
~~)(~~and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are allowed
~~)(~~at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see why
~~)(~~people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major endeavor to
do
~~)(~~so.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~----Original Message----
~~)(~~From: mike.murray@obra.org
~~)(~~Date: 10/03/2006 9:46 PM
~~)(~~To:
~~)(~~Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
~~)(~~
~~)(~~If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races
~~)(~~why
~~)(~~would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have specific
~~)(~~rules
~~)(~~for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
~~)(~~state:
~~)(~~
~~)(~~"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
~~)(~~Handlebars that
~~)(~~allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
~~)(~~events.
~~)(~~Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have sharp
~~)(~~or
~~)(~~jagged ends."
~~)(~~
~~)(~~In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone
~~)(~~that
~~)(~~thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be special
~~)(~~cross
~~)(~~bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at the very
~~)(~~beginning of the rules.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Mike Murray
~~)(~~
~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
~~)(~~On
~~)(~~Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
~~)(~~Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons.
~~)(~~Even if
~~)(~~it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~---- david baker wrote:
~~)(~~> Hey all,
~~)(~~> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been
~~)(~~ok
~~)(~~> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I
~~)(~~was
~~)(~~> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
~~)(~~message
~~)(~~> is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
~~)(~~> george 073.jpg
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
~~)(~~prevent
~~)(~~> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
~~)(~~e-mail
~~)(~~security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john

I fail to imagine how a Bar-End would be any more dangerous then just a Handlebar-End. I would think a Bar-ends on a MTB handlebars would actually make it safer !

1. Having a Bar-End on the Handlebar-End should make the Handlebar End safer. In a crash / fall over, where more force is going to be exerted, a handlebar is more likely to come at a body sideways. A bar end adds surface area to a Handlebar end coming at you sidways..

2. But regardless a plugged end of mtb handlebar or barend is greater then the tip of a Road Brake lever anyway, and therefore should be safer ! I would rather get poked by a bar end then a Road Brake.

3. If one has an inwardly curved Bar-End, like many are anyway, then this is even more safe. i would say run one of these if you can.

4. A Bar-End also protects from a pointy MTB brake lever end.

5. Get the hacksaw out and Don't run such wide bars !

john schmidt

GEORGE SCHRECK wrote:
Actually, they are a signficant danger for cyclocross races. There
tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers and run
up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the fields
make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped som
there is a lot of passing.

I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous if
there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross races,
and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are allowed
at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see why
people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major endeavor to do
so.

----Original Message----
From: mike.murray@obra.org
Date: 10/03/2006 9:46 PM
To:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races
why
would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have specific
rules
for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
state:

"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
Handlebars that
allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
events.
Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have sharp
or
jagged ends."

In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone
that
thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be special
cross
bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at the very
beginning of the rules.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons.
Even if
it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.

---- david baker wrote:
> Hey all,
> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been
ok
> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I
was
> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
message
> is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
> george 073.jpg
>
> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
prevent
> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

masessa@charter.net

I assume it is because there is more chance of a rider pile-up in a cross race than a mtn bike race. But, I couldn't find anything in the UCI rules or USGP rules regarding this. However, I have seen it printed on many fliers at cross races stating that mtn bikes are legal with no forward facing bar ends.
You learn something new every day.
Dave

---- Mike Murray wrote:
> If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races why
> would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have specific rules
> for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only state:
>
> "9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger. Handlebars that
> allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start events.
> Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have sharp or
> jagged ends."
>
> In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone that
> thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be special cross
> bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at the very
> beginning of the rules.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules
>
>
> Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons. Even if
> it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.
>
> ---- david baker wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been ok
> > with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I was
> > thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The message
> > is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
> > george 073.jpg
> >
> > Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
> > sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail
> security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

GEORGE SCHRECK

Actually, they are a signficant danger for cyclocross races. There
tend to be more pile ups in cross races becuase of the barriers and run
up, particularly in the mud. Also, the shere numbers in the fields
make pile ups more likely, and the fact that riders get lapped som
there is a lot of passing.

I have been rammed from behind and it could have been dangerous if
there were extensions. There is no reason for them in a cross races,
and they should be removed. The fact that mountain bikes are allowed
at all is a significant concession in of itself. I do not see why
people cannot remove their extensions. It is not a major endeavor to do
so.

----Original Message----
From: mike.murray@obra.org
Date: 10/03/2006 9:46 PM
To:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races
why
would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have specific
rules
for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only
state:

"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger.
Handlebars that
allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start
events.
Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have sharp
or
jagged ends."

In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone
that
thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be special
cross
bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at the very
beginning of the rules.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons.
Even if
it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.

---- david baker wrote:
> Hey all,
> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been
ok
> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I
was
> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The
message
> is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
> george 073.jpg
>
> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
prevent
> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

If bar extensions are NOT too dangerous for use in mountain bike races why
would they be too dangerous for cross? OBRA does not have specific rules
for cross bikes beyond the general bike rules. Those rules only state:

"9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger. Handlebars that
allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start events.
Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have sharp or
jagged ends."

In other words, you can leave your extensions on. If there is anyone that
thinks this rule needs to be different or if there need to be special cross
bike rules they can present that proposal by the mechanism at the very
beginning of the rules.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 08:30 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons. Even if
it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.

---- david baker wrote:
> Hey all,
> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been ok
> with these bar-ends in bend. Will that fly over in the valley? I was
> thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race. The message
> is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
> george 073.jpg
>
> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

masessa@charter.net

Forward facing bar ends typically aren't allowed for safety reasons. Even if it's not written it's the right thing to remove them.

---- david baker wrote:
> Hey all,
> I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been ok with these bar-ends in bend.
> Will that fly over in the valley? I was thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race.
> The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
> george 073.jpg
>
> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

Candi Murray

It will be fine. OBRA does not have restrictions on bikes for ccx.

Candi

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of david baker
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:54 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Hey all,

I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been ok with
these bar-ends in bend.

Will that fly over in the valley? I was thinking of swinging by the sam
barlow high school race.

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
george 073.jpg

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

david baker

oh yeah, that would be cat b.
----- Original Message -----
From: david baker
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] cyclocross rules

Hey all,
I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been ok with these bar-ends in bend.
Will that fly over in the valley? I was thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race.
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
george 073.jpg

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

david baker

Hey all,
I can't remember what I did in the past, but this year I have been ok with these bar-ends in bend.
Will that fly over in the valley? I was thinking of swinging by the sam barlow high school race.
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
george 073.jpg

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.