John Bravard

This is the second account of the crash I've received and both have pointed

out that he crashed right of the yellow line and ended up in the oncoming

lane. It's clear that no matter how well the riders mind the rules and how

tightly a race is officiated there is always a chance of something going

terribly wrong. By following the rules, however, I feel we greatly reduce

the risk of someone getting seriously injured.



Crossing the yellow line to avoid a crash can be somewhat instinctive, yet

brings up an interesting dilemma. (Playing devil's advocate) Given the

choice between running into a downer cyclist, or going head on with a

vehicle at speed, which would be preferable? I'm sure I've avoided one or

more crashes in the oncoming lane. Can't remember whether I knew there was

no car, or just got lucky. I definitely wouldn't want to be unlucky.



I, too, have seen over zealous officials trying to herd riders in a manner

that I felt made the situation more dangerous. As Candi suggests, riders

need to encourage [themselves and] others to follow the rules. Perhaps

discussing this on OBRA Chat will result in some action.



John





-----Original Message-----

From: baldb-@hotmail.com [mailto:baldb-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:09 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline at Cherry Pie



John Bravard wrote:

 
. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly and

 completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming

lane.

I unfortunately was directly behind the rider who crashed, and he really

didn't choose to end up in the oncoming lane, just like I didn't have a

choice in riding off the road into the loose gravel on the left to avoid

him. Back home in Michigan, we had this debate with officials who would

rather us log jam into a crash as opposed to avoiding it by crossing the

centerline. One particularly zealous official would come blasting by

the pack at 80, then stand straddling the centerline with his arms

folded accross his chest like some demented southern sheriff. What was

causing the greater danger? He no longer officiates due to this

behavior. Unless there is a reason to cross the centerline, don't take

the chance. I watched a friend of mine get dragged by a car for 50 feet

after crashing into the oncoming lane. Made me want to hang the bike up

for a while.



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baldb-@hotmail.com

John Bravard wrote:

 
. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly and

 completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming

lane.

I unfortunately was directly behind the rider who crashed, and he really

didn't choose to end up in the oncoming lane, just like I didn't have a

choice in riding off the road into the loose gravel on the left to avoid

him. Back home in Michigan, we had this debate with officials who would

rather us log jam into a crash as opposed to avoiding it by crossing the

centerline. One particularly zealous official would come blasting by

the pack at 80, then stand straddling the centerline with his arms

folded accross his chest like some demented southern sheriff. What was

causing the greater danger? He no longer officiates due to this

behavior. Unless there is a reason to cross the centerline, don't take

the chance. I watched a friend of mine get dragged by a car for 50 feet

after crashing into the oncoming lane. Made me want to hang the bike up

for a while.

mike.m-@obra.org

John Bravard [mailto:j-bra-@comcast.net] wrote:

"The last two kilometers of the Cherry Pie RR were pretty dicey. There were

a

lot of people charging hard and going every which way for 4th through 54th

place. The road was open for the last 200m, but folks were all over the

centerline for the last 2km. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly and

completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming lane.

We race on open roads, and adding a car to this mishap would likely have

made the injuries he sustained look pretty minor."



For those that have not been around as long as I have I should remind you

that this has already happened. In 1982 in Oregon a rider crossed the

centerline, struck an oncoming car and was killed. He was about a kilometer

out from the finish. The road was straight and he should have been able to

see ahead easily. He was in a small group, not a huge sprinting pack. I

had to participate in the fruitless resuscitation attempt. I can give you

the gory details of the event, the subsequent liability action, etc. if you

like.



The centerline rule is not just a sports rule. It is an absolute

requirement for safety. It is more like not repelling from a single piece

of protection then it is like taking too many steps with a basketball.

Unfortunately it is a difficult rule for officials to enforce, especially if

it is ignored by large numbers of riders near the end of a race. Imagine

yourself in a car behind a field of 100 riders, many with poorly pinned

numbers, trying to figure out who were the 20 guys at the front that went

over the line. Mostly the enforcement needs to come from the riders through

their own self discipline and chastising others.



Hopefully people will be getting the message on this subject. I really

don't want to see any more dead bike racers.



Mike Murray

Nick Glazener

Agreed. I saw a Team O rider in the cat 3/4/5 race intentionally

cheating by using the open lane to improve his position at the very

beginning of the race. I saw him do 3 times. I would say that this

kind of obvious cheating should result in an immediate DQ without

warning. Just like the pre-race helmet rule. I know it is difficult

for officials to do that. As an official, I would use more

consideration if someone used the open lane to avoid an accident.



I know of an official at the Cherry Pie that gave 2 warnings to a couple

riders before a DQ on the third offense. The official was given an

obscene gesture for the decision. This is definitely unacceptable. I

suggest an automatic liscense suspension for such behavior. The

liscense can be reinstated by paying the fee again and a written apology

to OBRA and the officials.



The cheating Team O rider didn't bother me at all. However, if he had

tried to get back over the line anywhere around me I would have been

very aggressive to not allow him back in. I am not really an anal

hardass. I just believe in the acceptance that there are consequences

for our actions. So the consequences for crossing the center line are a

DQ or death. We still have the freedom to choose.

John Bravard wrote:

 

I shared my thoughts with my team, and a few asked me to post them on

the

OBRA list.



The last two kilometers of the Cherry Pie RR were pretty dicey. There

were a

lot of people charging hard and going every which way for 4th through

54th

place. The road was open for the last 200m, but folks were all over the

centerline for the last 2km. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly

and

completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming

lane.

We race on open roads, and adding a car to this mishap would likely have

made the injuries he sustained look pretty minor.



I, and quite a few others, would like to see riders pulled on the spot

when

crossing the centerline during races. It's dangerous, and it's a clear

advantage over those who work their way up properly. Pulling riders

during

the early part of a race would set an example and likely keep it from

happening in the latter stages. All we need is for someone to become a

hood

ornament and we'll see road racing severely reduced in Oregon.



I know officials have their hands full at these races, and I'm not sure

that

it is possible to crack down on centerline violations when so many

people

are doing it. I've seen riders reprimanded after a tough 3+ hour road

race,

and this caused a lot of hard feelings with the official finally

reducing

disqualifications to warnings. On the spot warnings and

disqualifications

would eliminate second guessing after the race, and, I believe, provide

an

effective deterrent for the rest of the racers. Are there any ideas on

how

officials could effectively enforce centerline violations during a race?



In closing, stay to the right of the centerline and heckle the hell out

of

those who cross it. If you're in the front of the group for the sprint

and

feeling good, then go for the win and be safe. If you're in the back of

a

big field with nothing but assholes and elbows 50 deep in front of you,

then

don't even think about sprinting, keep your head up, and watch out for

people in front of you hitting the pavement.



John Bravard

Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

We have one death at a race here in Oregon, thankfully it was almost 20

years ago.

It was the Cat 5/Novice field, coming in for the final sprint. The riders

bumped and one rider went into the oncoming lane and hit a car head one. It

was truly awful.

I agree with John, the way to handle this is immediate disqualification

(that was done in the Masters field at Cheryr Pie) but you have to be able

to identify the riders, at 1K it is near impossible for officials to do so.

Some policing within the pack is needed also. I will strive to encourage

our officials to act immediately and decisively. You encourage the riders

to ride where they belong!

Candi



-----Original Message-----

From: John Bravard [mailto:j-bra-@comcast.net]

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:09 PM

To: OBRA

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Centerline at Cherry Pie





I shared my thoughts with my team, and a few asked me to post them on the

OBRA list.



The last two kilometers of the Cherry Pie RR were pretty dicey. There were a

lot of people charging hard and going every which way for 4th through 54th

place. The road was open for the last 200m, but folks were all over the

centerline for the last 2km. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly and

completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming lane.

We race on open roads, and adding a car to this mishap would likely have

made the injuries he sustained look pretty minor.



I, and quite a few others, would like to see riders pulled on the spot when

crossing the centerline during races. It's dangerous, and it's a clear

advantage over those who work their way up properly. Pulling riders during

the early part of a race would set an example and likely keep it from

happening in the latter stages. All we need is for someone to become a hood

ornament and we'll see road racing severely reduced in Oregon.



I know officials have their hands full at these races, and I'm not sure that

it is possible to crack down on centerline violations when so many people

are doing it. I've seen riders reprimanded after a tough 3+ hour road race,

and this caused a lot of hard feelings with the official finally reducing

disqualifications to warnings. On the spot warnings and disqualifications

would eliminate second guessing after the race, and, I believe, provide an

effective deterrent for the rest of the racers. Are there any ideas on how

officials could effectively enforce centerline violations during a race?



In closing, stay to the right of the centerline and heckle the hell out of

those who cross it. If you're in the front of the group for the sprint and

feeling good, then go for the win and be safe. If you're in the back of a

big field with nothing but assholes and elbows 50 deep in front of you, then

don't even think about sprinting, keep your head up, and watch out for

people in front of you hitting the pavement.



John Bravard



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Adams, Mike

I have seen head on's with cars and both times nobody walked away, one died and one crippled.

We certainly don't get paid enough to risk serious injury. If you're riding strong and in the first group, 10 to 15 deep, have fun and hammer. If you're not then hold you're place and keep the rubber side down for you and your fellow racers to race for another day. Another part of racing is being thoughtful of your fellow riders. This is evident in the pros as well as us weekenders, if you violate the yellow line you are eliminated immediately. We are developing into a nationally recognized racing area lets not muck it up by an avoidable mishap. Just my two cents.

Mike Adams

50+ Masters



-----Original Message-----

From: John Bravard [mailto:j-bra-@comcast.net]

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:09 PM

To: OBRA

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Centerline at Cherry Pie





I shared my thoughts with my team, and a few asked me to post them on the

OBRA list.



The last two kilometers of the Cherry Pie RR were pretty dicey. There were a

lot of people charging hard and going every which way for 4th through 54th

place. The road was open for the last 200m, but folks were all over the

centerline for the last 2km. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly and

completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming lane.

We race on open roads, and adding a car to this mishap would likely have

made the injuries he sustained look pretty minor.



I, and quite a few others, would like to see riders pulled on the spot when

crossing the centerline during races. It's dangerous, and it's a clear

advantage over those who work their way up properly. Pulling riders during

the early part of a race would set an example and likely keep it from

happening in the latter stages. All we need is for someone to become a hood

ornament and we'll see road racing severely reduced in Oregon.



I know officials have their hands full at these races, and I'm not sure that

it is possible to crack down on centerline violations when so many people

are doing it. I've seen riders reprimanded after a tough 3+ hour road race,

and this caused a lot of hard feelings with the official finally reducing

disqualifications to warnings. On the spot warnings and disqualifications

would eliminate second guessing after the race, and, I believe, provide an

effective deterrent for the rest of the racers. Are there any ideas on how

officials could effectively enforce centerline violations during a race?



In closing, stay to the right of the centerline and heckle the hell out of

those who cross it. If you're in the front of the group for the sprint and

feeling good, then go for the win and be safe. If you're in the back of a

big field with nothing but assholes and elbows 50 deep in front of you, then

don't even think about sprinting, keep your head up, and watch out for

people in front of you hitting the pavement.



John Bravard



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

John Bravard

I shared my thoughts with my team, and a few asked me to post them on the

OBRA list.



The last two kilometers of the Cherry Pie RR were pretty dicey. There were a

lot of people charging hard and going every which way for 4th through 54th

place. The road was open for the last 200m, but folks were all over the

centerline for the last 2km. I hope the guy who crashed recovers quickly and

completely, but one thing I noticed is that he crashed in the oncoming lane.

We race on open roads, and adding a car to this mishap would likely have

made the injuries he sustained look pretty minor.



I, and quite a few others, would like to see riders pulled on the spot when

crossing the centerline during races. It's dangerous, and it's a clear

advantage over those who work their way up properly. Pulling riders during

the early part of a race would set an example and likely keep it from

happening in the latter stages. All we need is for someone to become a hood

ornament and we'll see road racing severely reduced in Oregon.



I know officials have their hands full at these races, and I'm not sure that

it is possible to crack down on centerline violations when so many people

are doing it. I've seen riders reprimanded after a tough 3+ hour road race,

and this caused a lot of hard feelings with the official finally reducing

disqualifications to warnings. On the spot warnings and disqualifications

would eliminate second guessing after the race, and, I believe, provide an

effective deterrent for the rest of the racers. Are there any ideas on how

officials could effectively enforce centerline violations during a race?



In closing, stay to the right of the centerline and heckle the hell out of

those who cross it. If you're in the front of the group for the sprint and

feeling good, then go for the win and be safe. If you're in the back of a

big field with nothing but assholes and elbows 50 deep in front of you, then

don't even think about sprinting, keep your head up, and watch out for

people in front of you hitting the pavement.



John Bravard