RE: Centerline and other violations

Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

2004-02-20



Come on guys, I have had lots of riders drop back to leave coats or ask

questions. They then get back in. What's the problem?

Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Hopkins, Larry [mailto:lhop-@Huntair.com]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:14 AM

To: Steve-@clark.wa.gov; shane.-@comcast.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





NOBODY!



-----Original Message-----

From: Steve-@clark.wa.gov [mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:16 AM

To: shane.-@comcast.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I agree with you Shane, however, I would like to know who is going to drop

back to tell an official in risk of having to fight their way back up in to

the main field?



-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Young [mailto:shane.-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:02 PM

To: 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I really hope that a comment like this is a joke... because it if isn't...

it is a sad, sad comment...



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Forgeron [mailto:te-@easystreet.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:40 PM

To: cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense. Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

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Eric.K-@kingrs.com

2004-02-20



or we could just yell "I GOT YOUR NUMBER MR.522!!"



-----Original Message-----

From: Paul Kanz [mailto:pka-@kanz.org]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:16 AM

To: Steve-@clark.wa.gov

Cc: shane.-@comcast.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations







Maybe the official will give the rider a tow back to the field, on their

way to pull the number of the offending rider.



On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 Steve-@clark.wa.gov wrote:



 I agree with you Shane, however, I would like to know who is going to drop

back to tell an official in risk of having to fight their way back up in

to

 the main field?



-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Young [mailto:shane.-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:02 PM

To: 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I really hope that a comment like this is a joke... because it if isn't...

it is a sad, sad comment...



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Forgeron [mailto:te-@easystreet.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:40 PM

To: cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

Candi

 





-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by

the

 rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any

validity

 to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Paul Kanz

2004-02-20





Maybe the official will give the rider a tow back to the field, on their

way to pull the number of the offending rider.



On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 Steve-@clark.wa.gov wrote:



 I agree with you Shane, however, I would like to know who is going to drop

back to tell an official in risk of having to fight their way back up in to

the main field?



-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Young [mailto:shane.-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:02 PM

To: 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I really hope that a comment like this is a joke... because it if isn't...

it is a sad, sad comment...



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Forgeron [mailto:te-@easystreet.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:40 PM

To: cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense. Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Hopkins, Larry

2004-02-20



NOBODY!



-----Original Message-----

From: Steve-@clark.wa.gov [mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:16 AM

To: shane.-@comcast.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I agree with you Shane, however, I would like to know who is going to drop

back to tell an official in risk of having to fight their way back up in to

the main field?



-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Young [mailto:shane.-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:02 PM

To: 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I really hope that a comment like this is a joke... because it if isn't...

it is a sad, sad comment...



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Forgeron [mailto:te-@easystreet.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:40 PM

To: cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense. Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Steve-@clark.wa.gov

2004-02-20



I agree with you Shane, however, I would like to know who is going to drop

back to tell an official in risk of having to fight their way back up in to

the main field?



-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Young [mailto:shane.-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:02 PM

To: 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





I really hope that a comment like this is a joke... because it if isn't...

it is a sad, sad comment...



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Forgeron [mailto:te-@easystreet.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:40 PM

To: cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense. Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Keith A. Prior

2004-02-20



This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



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I was going to say the same! That guy has quite a pair for owning up to

that!



-K

-----Original Message-----

From: The Greenwalts [mailto:rcgree-@qwest.net]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 12:06 AM

To: albertanu-@yahoo.com; te-@easystreet.com; cmur-@obra.org;

'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





Well right on Matt. You are truly a stand up guy who has learned more in

an afternoon

of e-mail swapping then many in the peleton will learn all year.

It's very refreshing to hear ANYBODY in our society take ownership of

their mistake.



An open mind and ear will serve you well in this sport........



Ric





    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Matthew W

    To: te-@easystreet.com ; cmur-@obra.org ; 'Shane Stent' ; 'obra'

    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:48 PM

    Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





    As the guilty Team-O rider who thrice crossed the line in the 3/4/5

race, I must to object to that assessment of someone dropping back to let

officials know what's going on.



    As I am now aware, the issue of crossing the centerline is one that

involves people's lives. There is no honor in remaining silent about this

sort of act, regardless of the intent of the transgressor.



    It would have been appropriate for me to have been disqualified. And

because of the implications of crossing the line I personally believe that

it is our obligation to inform officials when this occurs.



    With apologies,

    Matthew Wolpert









    Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com> wrote:

      That would be "rat finking".



      -----Original Message-----

      From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

[mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

      Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

      To: Shane Stent; obra

      Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



      I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse

drops

      back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

      Candi







      -----Original Message-----

      From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

      Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

      To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

      Subject: Centerline and other violations





      Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play

by the

      rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any

validity

      to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



      No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations

at

      the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a

wierd

      area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean

racing,

      would it be worth it?



      If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no

official

      made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



      Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole

or a

      couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race?

How

      do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would

he

      report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



      Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber

side

      down.



      Shane







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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=421573416-20022004>I was

going to say the same! That guy has quite a pair for owning up to

that!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=421573416-20022004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=421573416-20022004>-K</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> The Greenwalts

[mailto:rcgree-@qwest.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 20, 2004 12:06

AM<BR><B>To:</B> albertanu-@yahoo.com; te-@easystreet.com;

cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat]

Centerline and other violations<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV>Well right on Matt. You are truly a stand up guy who has learned more in

an afternoon</DIV>

<DIV>of e-mail swapping then many in the peleton will learn all year.</DIV>

<DIV>It's very refreshing to hear ANYBODY in our society take ownership of

their mistake.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>An open mind and ear will serve you well in this sport........</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Ric</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

    <DIV

    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

    <A title=albert-@yahoo.com

    href="mailto:albertanu-@yahoo.com">Matthew W</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@easystreet.com

    href="mailto:te-@easystreet.com">te-@easystreet.com</A> ; <A

    title=c-@obra.org href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</A> ;

    <A title=-@msn.com href="mailto:sst-@msn.com">'Shane Stent'</A> ; <A

    title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">'obra'</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:48

    PM</DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and

    other violations</DIV>

    <DIV><BR></DIV>

    <DIV>As the guilty Team-O rider who thrice crossed the line in the 3/4/5

    race, I must to object to that assessment of someone dropping back to

    let officials know what's going on. </DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV>As I am now aware, the issue of crossing the centerline is one that

    involves people's lives. There is no honor in remaining silent about this

    sort of act, regardless of the intent of the transgressor.</DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV>It would have been appropriate for me to have been disqualified. And

    because of the implications of crossing the line I personally

    believe that it is our obligation to inform officials when this

occurs.</DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV>With apologies,</DIV>

    <DIV>Matthew Wolpert</DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com></I></B>

    wrote:</DIV>

    <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq

    style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">That

      would be "rat finking".<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Candi

      Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org] <BR>Sent:

      Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM<BR>To: Shane Stent; obra<BR>Subject:

      RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations<BR><BR>I think it might

      work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops<BR>back and lets

      the official know the # of the riders doing the

      offense.<BR>Candi<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Shane

      Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]<BR>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16

      AM<BR>To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org<BR>Subject: Centerline

      and other violations<BR><BR><BR>Since it seems that there are still kids

      out there who refuse to play by the<BR>rules and since the officials

      cannot catch all, would there be any validity<BR>to have a few "moles"

      amongst the categories to ensure safety.<BR><BR>No one would know who they

      are and the "moles" would report violations at<BR>the close of the race in

      a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd<BR>area of Big Brother

      and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,<BR>would it be worth

      it?<BR><BR>If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and

      no official<BR>made the call, racers might start to behave a little

      better.<BR><BR>Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how

      does a mole or a<BR>couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still

      enjoy the race? How<BR>do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent

      were a mole, would he<BR>report Lance in violation each race and vice

      versa?<BR><BR>Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping

      the rubber side<BR>down.<BR><BR>Shane<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <P>

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The Greenwalts

2004-02-20



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Well right on Matt. You are truly a stand up guy who has learned more in an afternoon

of e-mail swapping then many in the peleton will learn all year.

It's very refreshing to hear ANYBODY in our society take ownership of their mistake.



An open mind and ear will serve you well in this sport........



Ric





----- Original Message -----

From: Matthew W

To: te-@easystreet.com ; cmur-@obra.org ; 'Shane Stent' ; 'obra'

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:48 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations





As the guilty Team-O rider who thrice crossed the line in the 3/4/5 race, I must to object to that assessment of someone dropping back to let officials know what's going on.



As I am now aware, the issue of crossing the centerline is one that involves people's lives. There is no honor in remaining silent about this sort of act, regardless of the intent of the transgressor.



It would have been appropriate for me to have been disqualified. And because of the implications of crossing the line I personally believe that it is our obligation to inform officials when this occurs.



With apologies,

Matthew Wolpert









Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com> wrote:

    That would be "rat finking".



    -----Original Message-----

    From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

    To: Shane Stent; obra

    Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



    I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

    back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

    Candi







    -----Original Message-----

    From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

    To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

    Subject: Centerline and other violations





    Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

    rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

    to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



    No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

    the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

    area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

    would it be worth it?



    If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

    made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



    Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

    couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

    do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

    report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



    Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

    down.



    Shane







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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV>Well right on Matt. You are truly a stand up guy who has learned more in an

afternoon</DIV>

<DIV>of e-mail swapping then many in the peleton will learn all year.</DIV>

<DIV>It's very refreshing to hear ANYBODY in our society take ownership of their

mistake.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>An open mind and ear will serve you well in this sport........</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Ric</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=albert-@yahoo.com

href="mailto:albertanu-@yahoo.com">Matthew W</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@easystreet.com

href="mailto:te-@easystreet.com">te-@easystreet.com</A> ; <A

title=c-@obra.org href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</A> ;

<A title=-@msn.com href="mailto:sst-@msn.com">'Shane Stent'</A> ; <A

title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">'obra'</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:48

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and

other violations</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV>As the guilty Team-O rider who thrice crossed the line in the 3/4/5 race,

I must to object to that assessment of someone dropping back to let

officials know what's going on. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>As I am now aware, the issue of crossing the centerline is one that

involves people's lives. There is no honor in remaining silent about this sort

of act, regardless of the intent of the transgressor.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>It would have been appropriate for me to have been disqualified. And

because of the implications of crossing the line I personally

believe that it is our obligation to inform officials when this occurs.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>With apologies,</DIV>

<DIV>Matthew Wolpert</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com></I></B>

wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq

style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">That

    would be "rat finking".<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Candi

    Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org] <BR>Sent:

    Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM<BR>To: Shane Stent; obra<BR>Subject:

    RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations<BR><BR>I think it might work

    better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops<BR>back and lets the

    official know the # of the riders doing the

    offense.<BR>Candi<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Shane

    Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]<BR>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16

    AM<BR>To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org<BR>Subject: Centerline and

    other violations<BR><BR><BR>Since it seems that there are still kids out

    there who refuse to play by the<BR>rules and since the officials cannot

    catch all, would there be any validity<BR>to have a few "moles" amongst the

    categories to ensure safety.<BR><BR>No one would know who they are and the

    "moles" would report violations at<BR>the close of the race in a discreet

    manner. I know this gets into a wierd<BR>area of Big Brother and such but in

    the name of safety and clean racing,<BR>would it be worth it?<BR><BR>If all

    of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official<BR>made

    the call, racers might start to behave a little better.<BR><BR>Of course,

    there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a<BR>couple of

    moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How<BR>do you

    know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he<BR>report

    Lance in violation each race and vice versa?<BR><BR>Just a simple idea from

    a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber

side<BR>down.<BR><BR>Shane<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<P>

<HR SIZE=1>

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Shane Young

2004-02-19



I really hope that a comment like this is a joke... because it if

isn't... it is a sad, sad comment...



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Forgeron [mailto:te-@easystreet.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:40 PM

To: cmur-@obra.org; 'Shane Stent'; 'obra'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse

drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by

the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any

validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations

at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a

wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no

official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or

a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race?

How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would

he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber

side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Matthew W

2004-02-19



--0-164072100-1077245310=:56808

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



As the guilty Team-O rider who thrice crossed the line in the 3/4/5 race, I must to object to that assessment of someone dropping back to let officials know what's going on.



As I am now aware, the issue of crossing the centerline is one that involves people's lives. There is no honor in remaining silent about this sort of act, regardless of the intent of the transgressor.



It would have been appropriate for me to have been disqualified. And because of the implications of crossing the line I personally believe that it is our obligation to inform officials when this occurs.



With apologies,

Matthew Wolpert









Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com> wrote:

That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane





---------------------------------

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Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.

--0-164072100-1077245310=:56808

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii



<DIV>As the guilty Team-O rider who thrice crossed the line in the 3/4/5 race, I must to object to that assessment of someone dropping back to let officials know what's going on. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>As I am now aware, the issue of crossing the centerline is one that involves people's lives. There is no honor in remaining silent about this sort of act, regardless of the intent of the transgressor.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>It would have been appropriate for me to have been disqualified. And because of the implications of crossing the line I personally believe that it is our obligation to inform officials when this occurs.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>With apologies,</DIV>

<DIV>Matthew Wolpert</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> <BR><BR><B><I>Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">That would be "rat finking".<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org] <BR>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM<BR>To: Shane Stent; obra<BR>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations<BR><BR>I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops<BR>back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.<BR>Candi<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]<BR>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM<BR>To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org<BR>Subject: Centerline and other violations<BR><BR><BR>Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the<BR>rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity<BR>to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure

safety.<BR><BR>No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at<BR>the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd<BR>area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,<BR>would it be worth it?<BR><BR>If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official<BR>made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.<BR><BR>Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a<BR>couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How<BR>do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he<BR>report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?<BR><BR>Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side<BR>down.<BR><BR>Shane<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><hr SIZE=1>

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--0-164072100-1077245310=:56808--



Steven B

2004-02-19



not if it saves a life....





--- Ted Forgeron <te-@easystreet.com> wrote:

 That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

[mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other

violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees

some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders

doing the offense.

Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there

who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all,

would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to

ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would

report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know

this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of

safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of

race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little

better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with

this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and

still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent

were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys

keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane

_________________________________________________________________

 Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to

design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/

 

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to

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To respond to the list manager send to

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





__________________________________

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te-@easystreet.com

2004-02-19



That would be "rat finking".



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:18 AM

To: Shane Stent; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline and other violations



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

2004-02-19



I think it might work better if a rider who sees some blatant abuse drops

back and lets the official know the # of the riders doing the offense.

Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Stent [mailto:sst-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:16 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; cmur-@obra.org

Subject: Centerline and other violations





Since it seems that there are still kids out there who refuse to play by the

rules and since the officials cannot catch all, would there be any validity

to have a few "moles" amongst the categories to ensure safety.



No one would know who they are and the "moles" would report violations at

the close of the race in a discreet manner. I know this gets into a wierd

area of Big Brother and such but in the name of safety and clean racing,

would it be worth it?



If all of a sudden, 10 riders are DQ'd at the end of race and no official

made the call, racers might start to behave a little better.



Of course, there are a lot of questions with this.....how does a mole or a

couple of moles keep track of guilty parties and still enjoy the race? How

do you know if a mole is telling the truth? If Kent were a mole, would he

report Lance in violation each race and vice versa?



Just a simple idea from a simple person who enjoys keeping the rubber side

down.



Shane



_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/