Jake Bigham

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This is not intended to throw fuel on the fire of controversy but I

have always thought it odd that people refer to "same rules".

There are not the same rules:

I don't think motorists are supposed to pass other motorists in no

passing zones with oncoming traffic.

I don't think 13 year olds are allowed to operate motor vehicles on

public roadways

Motorists are not supposed to use bicycle and pedestrian paths; they

are not supposed to use bike lanes either.

doesn't the law allow for cyclists to ride two abreast in some

instances (not that I think it is a safe idea)?

bikes do not (to my knowledge) need insurance or registration.

I think there are a lot of differences in the rules and rights and in

many places (not Oregon, I guess) there are many roads that are

prohibited for use by cyclists and pedestrians as there are (far fewer

miles of) pathway that are prohibited to use by cars and trucks.



I am not sure I get the connection between obeying stop signs and the

hit and run described in the first email

-Jake Bigham



On Jan 26, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Robert Nobles wrote:



 Susan,

?

Unless someone asks you for advice or you are leading a group ride, I

don't think?people will?be too receptive to?legal pointers?on?how to

ride. Especially if they are not endangering anyone (but themselves)

by breaking some of the more minor car traffic laws that they believe

don't make sense for bikes due to our slow speeds, small size,?and

good lines of sight.





Susan Otcenas <sus-@teamestrogen.com> wrote:

Apologies in advance for cross-posting to more than one e-list.



Yesterday, the Oregonian published a Letter to the Editor that I wrote

after

reading about the latest hit-and-run here on the west side. Should you

care

to read it, here's a link to my letter

http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/

110639

8840172300.xml

as well as the original article

http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/

metro_west_new

s/110544844993880.xml



Predictably, yesterday evening I received an anonymous phone call from

"Jack" who wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he wasn't a

nutcase,

and we had an hour-long conversation about the differences between the

way

cyclists and motorists see the world. It was a productive conversation,

with both of us conceding a few points.



Jack's biggest beef with cyclists was the way in which cyclists often

seem

to flaunt the rules of the road. Running red lights and stop signs,

riding

3 abreast or in packs that do not move over when vehicles approach from

behind, failing to signal, etc. We demand "respect" and assert our

"rights", yet fail to observe the rules ourselves. Frankly, I agree

with

him. Sure, motorists break the rules all the time, but it doesn't

matter.

WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT OBEYING THE RULES

OURSELVES.



I want to start a discussion on a "code of conduct" of sorts.



### Note:

- If you wish to debate the evilness of autos, please start another

thread.

- If you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start another thread.

- If you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules, DON'T start a

thread.

Pony up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet volunteer your time

with

them to advocate for change.

###



The fact is, the rules are the rules, such as they are. If we ever

wish to

gain the respect of the motorists, we have to do a better job of

obeying the

rules of the road. And we have to figure out a way to politely tell our

fellow cyclists that certain behavior is not acceptable. There's a lot

to

be said for peer pressure.



In response to a recent post about police ticketing cyclists who were

not

stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I would very much

like to

commend the OBRA members who pointed that no e-mail "warning" should be

necessary. My favorite was:



"Remember the "three R's" of cycling:



Same road

Same rules

Same rights"



For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I can't/won't be

perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop at every stop

sign

instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear". I'm going to

ask

friends on group rides to be more conscious of approaching vehicles so

that

we can be courteous to our fellow citizens by allowing them to safely

pass.

I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A Legal Guide for Oregon

Bicyclists" so I

can be sure of my rights and responsibilities (free download available

at

http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that some of you

will

also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle, and see if

there

isn't some small way in which you can improve as well. Every action we

as

individuals take is seen as representative of our entire

class--especially

if it's a negative action, which reinforces what motorists already

think and

expect.



So, I pose two questions:



1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to communicate with

other

individual cyclists, on the road, about behaving?



And



2) What would be the most effective way for an organization (like the

BTA,

OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad outreach to the cycling

community on

this issue?



I apologize if this e-mail has come

Do you Yahoo!?

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This is not intended to throw fuel on the fire of controversy but I

have always thought it odd that people refer to "same rules".



There are not the same rules:



I don't think motorists are supposed to pass other motorists in no

passing zones with oncoming traffic.



I don't think 13 year olds are allowed to operate motor vehicles on

public roadways



Motorists are not supposed to use bicycle and pedestrian paths; they

are not supposed to use bike lanes either.



doesn't the law allow for cyclists to ride two abreast in some

instances (not that I think it is a safe idea)?



bikes do not (to my knowledge) need insurance or registration.



I think there are a lot of differences in the rules and rights and in

many places (not Oregon, I guess) there are many roads that are

prohibited for use by cyclists and pedestrians as there are (far fewer

miles of) pathway that are prohibited to use by cars and trucks.





I am not sure I get the connection between obeying stop signs and the

hit and run described in the first email



-Jake Bigham





On Jan 26, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Robert Nobles wrote:





<excerpt>Susan,



=A0



Unless someone asks you for advice or you are leading a group ride, I

don't think=A0people will=A0be too receptive to=A0legal pointers=A0on=A0ho=

w to

ride. Especially if they are not endangering anyone (but themselves)

by breaking some of the more minor car traffic laws that they believe

don't make sense for bikes due to our slow speeds, small size,=A0and

good lines of sight.







<bold><italic>Susan Otcenas <<sus-@teamestrogen.com></italic></bold>

wrote:



Apologies in advance for cross-posting to more than one e-list.





Yesterday, the Oregonian published a Letter to the Editor that I wrote

after



reading about the latest hit-and-run here on the west side. Should you

care



to read it, here's a link to my letter



=

http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1106=

39



8840172300.xml



as well as the original article



=

http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west_n=

ew



s/110544844993880.xml





Predictably, yesterday evening I received an anonymous phone call from



"Jack" who wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he wasn't a

nutcase,



and we had an hour-long conversation about the differences between the

way



cyclists and motorists see the world. It was a productive conversation,



with both of us conceding a few points.





Jack's biggest beef with cyclists was the way in which cyclists often

seem



to flaunt the rules of the road. Running red lights and stop signs,

riding



3 abreast or in packs that do not move over when vehicles approach from



behind, failing to signal, etc. We demand "respect" and assert our



"rights", yet fail to observe the rules ourselves. Frankly, I agree

with



him. Sure, motorists break the rules all the time, but it doesn't

matter.



WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT OBEYING THE RULES



OURSELVES.





I want to start a discussion on a "code of conduct" of sorts.





### Note:



- If you wish to debate the evilness of autos, please start another

thread.



- If you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start another thread.



- If you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules, DON'T start a

thread.



Pony up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet volunteer your time

with



them to advocate for change.



###





The fact is, the rules are the rules, such as they are. If we ever

wish to



gain the respect of the motorists, we have to do a better job of

obeying the



rules of the road. And we have to figure out a way to politely tell our



fellow cyclists that certain behavior is not acceptable. There's a lot

to



be said for peer pressure.





In response to a recent post about police ticketing cyclists who were

not



stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I would very much

like to



commend the OBRA members who pointed that no e-mail "warning" should be



necessary. My favorite was:





"Remember the "three R's" of cycling:





Same road



Same rules



Same rights"





For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I can't/won't be



perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop at every stop

sign



instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear". I'm going to

ask



friends on group rides to be more conscious of approaching vehicles so

that



we can be courteous to our fellow citizens by allowing them to safely

pass.



I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A Legal Guide for Oregon

Bicyclists" so I



can be sure of my rights and responsibilities (free download available

at



http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that some of you

will



also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle, and see if

there



isn't some small way in which you can improve as well. Every action we

as



individuals take is seen as representative of our entire

class--especially



if it's a negative action, which reinforces what motorists already

think and



expect.





So, I pose two questions:





1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to communicate with

other



individual cyclists, on the road, about behaving?





And





2) What would be the most effective way for an organization (like the

BTA,



OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad outreach to the cycling

community on



this issue?





I apologize if this e-mail has come



Do you Yahoo!?



Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.

<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>Learn more.</color>



</excerpt>=



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The lights don't change for us. I'm not sitting there and waiting for a

car to come by to trip the light sensor. We are not playing on a level

playing field hear. Bicycle routes and bike lanes are an after thought

here in the states. True, it's getting better but there is still a long

way to go.

And, as far as those bike trip sensors go, I've seen bikes sit at that

intersection near the Rose Quarter for two and three light iterations

for the light to change for them. I'll go with the traffic and I avoid

using that particular one. There are others that work better like going

left off of Interstate Ave. And, those darned things are few and far

between. You're going to have cyclists running the lights as long as we

are not playing on level ground here I think.

And, if you think it's bad here, try riding a bike in Vegas. Good God,

you're lucky to get out of it alive.



-----Original Message-----

From: Robert Nobles [mailto:rwno-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:40 AM

To: sus-@teamestrogen.com; 'obra'

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Code of Conduct





Susan,



Unless someone asks you for advice or you are leading a group

ride, I don't think people will be too receptive to legal pointers on

how to ride. Especially if they are not endangering anyone (but

themselves) by breaking some of the more minor car traffic laws that

they believe don't make sense for bikes due to our slow speeds, small

size, and good lines of sight.





Susan Otcenas <sus-@teamestrogen.com> wrote:



Apologies in advance for cross-posting to more than one

e-list.



Yesterday, the Oregonian published a Letter to the

Editor that I wrote after

reading about the latest hit-and-run here on the west

side. Should you care

to read it, here's a link to my letter



http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/11

0639

8840172300.xml

as well as the original article



http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west

_new

s/110544844993880.xml



Predictably, yesterday evening I received an anonymous

phone call from

"Jack" who wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he

wasn't a nutcase,

and we had an hour-long conversation about the

differences between the way

cyclists and motorists see the world. It was a

productive conversation,

with both of us conceding a few points.



Jack's biggest beef wi! th cyclists was the way in which

cyclists often seem

to flaunt the rules of the road. Running red lights and

stop signs, riding

3 abreast or in packs that do not move over when

vehicles approach from

behind, failing to signal, etc. We demand "respect" and

assert our

"rights", yet fail to observe the rules ourselves.

Frankly, I agree with

him. Sure, motorists break the rules all the time, but

it doesn't matter.

WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT

OBEYING THE RULES

OURSELVES.



I want to start a discussion on a "code of conduct" of

sorts.



### Note:

- If you wish to debate the evilness of autos, please

start another thread.

- If you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start

another thread.

- If you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules,

DON'T start a thread.

Pony up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet

volunteer your time with

them to advocate for change.

###



The fact is, the rules are the rules! , such as they

are. If we ever wish to

gain the respect of the motorists, we have to do a

better job of obeying the

rules of the road. And we have to figure out a way to

politely tell our

fellow cyclists that certain behavior is not acceptable.

There's a lot to

be said for peer pressure.



In response to a recent post about police ticketing

cyclists who were not

stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I would

very much like to

commend the OBRA members who pointed that no e-mail

"warning" should be

necessary. My favorite was:



"Remember the "three R's" of cycling:



Same road

Same rules

Same rights"



For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I

can't/won't be

perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop

at every stop sign

instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear".

I'm going to ask

friends on group rides to be more conscious of

approaching vehicles so that

we can be courteous to our ! fellow citizens by allowing

them to safely pass.

I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A Legal Guide for

Oregon Bicyclists" so I

can be sure of my rights and responsibilities (free

download available at

http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that

some of you will

also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle,

and see if there

isn't some small way in which you can improve as well.

Every action we as

individuals take is seen as representative of our entire

class--especially

if it's a negative action, which reinforces what

motorists already think and

expect.



So, I pose two questions:



1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to

communicate with other

individual cyclists, on the road, about behaving?



And



2) What would be the most effective way for an

organization (like the BTA,

OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad outreach to the

cycling community on

this issue?



I apologize if this e-mail ha! s come

________________________________



Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced

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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>

<BODY>

<DIV><SPAN class=757355016-26012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The

lights don't change for us. I'm not sitting there and waiting for a car to come

by to trip the light sensor. We are not playing on a level playing field hear.

Bicycle routes and bike lanes are an after thought here in the states. True,

it's getting better but there is still a long way to go.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=757355016-26012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And,

as far as those bike trip sensors go, I've seen bikes sit at that intersection

near the Rose Quarter for two and three light iterations for the light to change

for them. I'll go with the traffic and I avoid using that particular one. There

are others that work better like going left off of Interstate Ave. And, those

darned things are few and far between. You're going to have cyclists running the

lights as long as we are not playing on level ground here I

think.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=757355016-26012005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And,

if you think it's bad here, try riding a bike in Vegas. Good God, you're lucky

to get out of it alive.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT

face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Robert Nobles

[mailto:rwno-@yahoo.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:40

AM<BR><B>To:</B> sus-@teamestrogen.com; 'obra'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA

Chat] Code of Conduct<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV>Susan,</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Unless someone asks you for advice or you are leading a group ride, I

don't think people will be too receptive to legal

pointers on how to ride. Especially if they are not endangering

anyone (but themselves) by breaking some of the more minor car traffic laws

that they believe don't make sense for bikes due to our slow speeds, small

size, and good lines of sight. </DIV>

<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Susan Otcenas <sus-@teamestrogen.com></I></B>

wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq

style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Apologies

    in advance for cross-posting to more than one e-list.<BR><BR>Yesterday, the

    Oregonian published a Letter to the Editor that I wrote after<BR>reading

    about the latest hit-and-run here on the west side. Should you care<BR>to

    read it, here's a link to my

    letter<BR>http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/110639<BR>8840172300.xml

    <BR>as well as the original

    article<BR>http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west_new<BR>s/110544844993880.xml<BR><BR>Predictably,

    yesterday evening I received an anonymous phone call from<BR>"Jack" who

    wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he wasn't a nutcase,<BR>and we had

    an hour-long conversation about the differences between the way<BR>cyclists

    and motorists see the world. It was a productive conversation,<BR>with both

    of us conceding a few points. <BR><BR>Jack's biggest beef wi! th cyclists

    was the way in which cyclists often seem<BR>to flaunt the rules of the road.

    Running red lights and stop signs, riding<BR>3 abreast or in packs that do

    not move over when vehicles approach from<BR>behind, failing to signal, etc.

    We demand "respect" and assert our<BR>"rights", yet fail to observe the

    rules ourselves. Frankly, I agree with<BR>him. Sure, motorists break the

    rules all the time, but it doesn't matter.<BR>WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL

    HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT OBEYING THE RULES<BR>OURSELVES.<BR><BR>I want to start

    a discussion on a "code of conduct" of sorts. <BR><BR>### Note:<BR>- If you

    wish to debate the evilness of autos, please start another thread. <BR>- If

    you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start another thread. <BR>- If

    you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules, DON'T start a thread.<BR>Pony

    up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet volunteer your time with<BR>them

    to advocate for change.<BR>###<BR><BR>The fact is, the rules are the rules!

    , such as they are. If we ever wish to<BR>gain the respect of the motorists,

    we have to do a better job of obeying the<BR>rules of the road. And we have

    to figure out a way to politely tell our<BR>fellow cyclists that certain

    behavior is not acceptable. There's a lot to<BR>be said for peer

    pressure.<BR><BR>In response to a recent post about police ticketing

    cyclists who were not<BR>stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I

    would very much like to<BR>commend the OBRA members who pointed that no

    e-mail "warning" should be<BR>necessary. My favorite was: <BR><BR>"Remember

    the "three R's" of cycling:<BR><BR>Same road<BR>Same rules<BR>Same

    rights"<BR><BR>For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I

    can't/won't be<BR>perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop at

    every stop sign<BR>instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear".

    I'm going to ask<BR>friends on group rides to be more conscious of

    approaching vehicles so that<BR>we can be courteous to our ! fellow citizens

    by allowing them to safely pass.<BR>I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A

    Legal Guide for Oregon Bicyclists" so I<BR>can be sure of my rights and

    responsibilities (free download available

    at<BR>http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that some of you

    will<BR>also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle, and see if

    there<BR>isn't some small way in which you can improve as well. Every action

    we as<BR>individuals take is seen as representative of our entire

    class--especially<BR>if it's a negative action, which reinforces what

    motorists already think and<BR>expect.<BR><BR>So, I pose two

    questions:<BR><BR>1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to

    communicate with other<BR>individual cyclists, on the road, about

    behaving?<BR><BR>And <BR><BR>2) What would be the most effective way for an

    organization (like the BTA,<BR>OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad

    outreach to the cycling community on<BR>this issue?<BR><BR>I apologize if

    this e-mail ha! s come

    <HR SIZE=1>

    Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.

    <A

    href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29917/*http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250">Learn

    more.</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



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Robert Nobles

--0-2057284817-1106757607=:32774

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



Susan,



Unless someone asks you for advice or you are leading a group ride, I don't think people will be too receptive to legal pointers on how to ride. Especially if they are not endangering anyone (but themselves) by breaking some of the more minor car traffic laws that they believe don't make sense for bikes due to our slow speeds, small size, and good lines of sight.





Susan Otcenas <sus-@teamestrogen.com> wrote:

Apologies in advance for cross-posting to more than one e-list.



Yesterday, the Oregonian published a Letter to the Editor that I wrote after

reading about the latest hit-and-run here on the west side. Should you care

to read it, here's a link to my letter

http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/110639

8840172300.xml

as well as the original article

http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west_new

s/110544844993880.xml



Predictably, yesterday evening I received an anonymous phone call from

"Jack" who wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he wasn't a nutcase,

and we had an hour-long conversation about the differences between the way

cyclists and motorists see the world. It was a productive conversation,

with both of us conceding a few points.



Jack's biggest beef with cyclists was the way in which cyclists often seem

to flaunt the rules of the road. Running red lights and stop signs, riding

3 abreast or in packs that do not move over when vehicles approach from

behind, failing to signal, etc. We demand "respect" and assert our

"rights", yet fail to observe the rules ourselves. Frankly, I agree with

him. Sure, motorists break the rules all the time, but it doesn't matter.

WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT OBEYING THE RULES

OURSELVES.



I want to start a discussion on a "code of conduct" of sorts.



### Note:

- If you wish to debate the evilness of autos, please start another thread.

- If you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start another thread.

- If you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules, DON'T start a thread.

Pony up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet volunteer your time with

them to advocate for change.

###



The fact is, the rules are the rules, such as they are. If we ever wish to

gain the respect of the motorists, we have to do a better job of obeying the

rules of the road. And we have to figure out a way to politely tell our

fellow cyclists that certain behavior is not acceptable. There's a lot to

be said for peer pressure.



In response to a recent post about police ticketing cyclists who were not

stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I would very much like to

commend the OBRA members who pointed that no e-mail "warning" should be

necessary. My favorite was:



"Remember the "three R's" of cycling:



Same road

Same rules

Same rights"



For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I can't/won't be

perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop at every stop sign

instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear". I'm going to ask

friends on group rides to be more conscious of approaching vehicles so that

we can be courteous to our fellow citizens by allowing them to safely pass.

I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A Legal Guide for Oregon Bicyclists" so I

can be sure of my rights and responsibilities (free download available at

http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that some of you will

also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle, and see if there

isn't some small way in which you can improve as well. Every action we as

individuals take is seen as representative of our entire class--especially

if it's a negative action, which reinforces what motorists already think and

expect.



So, I pose two questions:



1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to communicate with other

individual cyclists, on the road, about behaving?



And



2) What would be the most effective way for an organization (like the BTA,

OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad outreach to the cycling community on

this issue?



I apologize if this e-mail has come across as preachy. That's not my

intent. I just think we need to figure out a way to peacefully co-exist

with motorists and this seems like a good way to start. Please don't flame

me if you disagree. Constructive criticism and discussion welcome.



Susan



--------------------------------------------

Susan Otcenas

TEAM ESTROGEN, INC. __~o

2038 NW Aloclek Dr., Suite 220 -\_<,

Hillsboro, OR 97124 (*)/'(*)



http://www.TeamEstrogen.com

1-877-310-4592

--------------------------------------------

Cycling Apparel and Accessories for Women

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<DIV>Susan,</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Unless someone asks you for advice or you are leading a group ride, I don't think people will be too receptive to legal pointers on how to ride. Especially if they are not endangering anyone (but themselves) by breaking some of the more minor car traffic laws that they believe don't make sense for bikes due to our slow speeds, small size, and good lines of sight. </DIV>

<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Susan Otcenas <sus-@teamestrogen.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Apologies in advance for cross-posting to more than one e-list.<BR><BR>Yesterday, the Oregonian published a Letter to the Editor that I wrote after<BR>reading about the latest hit-and-run here on the west side. Should you care<BR>to read it, here's a link to my letter<BR>http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/110639<BR>8840172300.xml <BR>as well as the original article<BR>http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west_new<BR>s/110544844993880.xml<BR><BR>Predictably, yesterday evening I received an anonymous phone call from<BR>"Jack" who wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he wasn't a nutcase,<BR>and we had an hour-long conversation about the differences between the way<BR>cyclists and motorists see the world. It was a productive conversation,<BR>with both of us conceding a few points. <BR><BR>Jack's biggest beef with

cyclists was the way in which cyclists often seem<BR>to flaunt the rules of the road. Running red lights and stop signs, riding<BR>3 abreast or in packs that do not move over when vehicles approach from<BR>behind, failing to signal, etc. We demand "respect" and assert our<BR>"rights", yet fail to observe the rules ourselves. Frankly, I agree with<BR>him. Sure, motorists break the rules all the time, but it doesn't matter.<BR>WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT OBEYING THE RULES<BR>OURSELVES.<BR><BR>I want to start a discussion on a "code of conduct" of sorts. <BR><BR>### Note:<BR>- If you wish to debate the evilness of autos, please start another thread. <BR>- If you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start another thread. <BR>- If you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules, DON'T start a thread.<BR>Pony up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet volunteer your time with<BR>them to advocate for change.<BR>###<BR><BR>The fact is, the rules are the rules, such as

they are. If we ever wish to<BR>gain the respect of the motorists, we have to do a better job of obeying the<BR>rules of the road. And we have to figure out a way to politely tell our<BR>fellow cyclists that certain behavior is not acceptable. There's a lot to<BR>be said for peer pressure.<BR><BR>In response to a recent post about police ticketing cyclists who were not<BR>stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I would very much like to<BR>commend the OBRA members who pointed that no e-mail "warning" should be<BR>necessary. My favorite was: <BR><BR>"Remember the "three R's" of cycling:<BR><BR>Same road<BR>Same rules<BR>Same rights"<BR><BR>For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I can't/won't be<BR>perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop at every stop sign<BR>instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear". I'm going to ask<BR>friends on group rides to be more conscious of approaching vehicles so that<BR>we can be courteous to our fellow

citizens by allowing them to safely pass.<BR>I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A Legal Guide for Oregon Bicyclists" so I<BR>can be sure of my rights and responsibilities (free download available at<BR>http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that some of you will<BR>also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle, and see if there<BR>isn't some small way in which you can improve as well. Every action we as<BR>individuals take is seen as representative of our entire class--especially<BR>if it's a negative action, which reinforces what motorists already think and<BR>expect.<BR><BR>So, I pose two questions:<BR><BR>1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to communicate with other<BR>individual cyclists, on the road, about behaving?<BR><BR>And <BR><BR>2) What would be the most effective way for an organization (like the BTA,<BR>OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad outreach to the cycling community on<BR>this issue?<BR><BR>I apologize if this e-mail has come

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Tyler S

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>Caveat lector :  I'm new to the cycling world as a whole (as of this september) and to this mailing list (as of tonight).  </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>As a solo cyclist who 'trains' as well as 'commutes,' I too struggle with how to deal with the mass of moving steel and gasoline that often surrounds me.</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>I break a lot of 'official' laws, frankly.  It scares me to death to do otherwise.  Here's what I do -- anyone else going to admit to the same things, or think I should do differently?<BR><BR>* I almost never put a foot down at stops, unless it is a long, red light.  At a stop sign or flashing red, I simply 'post' for a moment, stopping all forward movement, and then proceen when I have the right of way or am waved through, which is often.  I don't 'roll through' the stop, I AM stopped, but only for between a moment and five seconds.  I don't unclip and put a foot down, because it scares me a bit to do so.  When there are cars behind me, or there could be cars coming, I'm afraid they won't notice what I'm doing, or will expect me to go when I don't, or something, and hit me.  It also takes a lot more time for my inexperienced feet to hop back up, clip in, and get underway, than it does to just post and pedal.</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>* In roads with two or more lanes of traffic moving the same direction, with narrow lanes, I ride fully in the rightmost lane of traffic.  Cars often lay on their horns for prolonged periods when behind me, or yell at me to get off the road.  There's a whole other lane for them to use!  I don't feel safe riding six inches from the curb, especially when I know the lane probably cannot fit an SUV and yours truly.  Is this what I ought to do?  It APPEARS that's what the law suggests should be done, but the motorists sure hate it.</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>* In roads with only one lane of traffic going the same direction, or wider roads with no bike lanes, I ride in the shoulder of the lane.  When I do that, I ride at my pace, regardless of how many cars I pass on the right, or how many pass me on the right.  I don't think I'm technically 'allowed' to 'create another lane' by the law, but it seems the only sane way to do this.</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>* At suburban intersections, when it's impossible or unfeasible to make a left turn 'as a car,' due to traffic or my inability to trigger a light, I will ride across the crosswalk, slowish, when 'walk' lights up.  I don't dismount and walk across the intersection in my clipless-pedal bicycle shoes.  I don't know that I COULD, and it would take forever.</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>* When approaching a yellow light, in traffic, I usually choose to run the light a little bit rather than stop, for fear that cars won't know I'm going to stop and rear-end me</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>Interested if this is the way most of you ride, or if you all really do put a foot down at every stoplight and sign, never pass cars out of your designated lane, et cetera.</DIV>

<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>-- Ty</DIV></div></html>