Andrew Beehler
This is the argument that cyclists, or "people on bikes" are making every
day, and the reason that this string keeps on going. We have to face that
whenever we run a light or stop sign, we are breaking the law. It is not
more ok to break a traffic law if no cars are around.
I am not saying that I do not do the same things at lights, because I do.
I'm just saying that when questioned about it, we should take
accountability, and not claim that it is ok to break a law if no one is
looking.
-Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:48 AM
To: da-@bicyclerepairman.us; Jerry.-@comcast.net; ron-@spiritone.com;
sus-@teamestrogen.com; CycleO-@yahoogroups.com; obra;
shi-@lists.riseup.net
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Code of Conduct (long, but hopefully worth your
time)
Yes, following the law does not mean obey it when the result is stupid
like sitting there for ten minutes waiting for a car to trip the light.
At some point, you have to be reasonable. Also, my view is that in
those situations, the road has been designed in a manner that does not
accord me equal treatment as a bicyclist, so I address the situation by
modifying the rule to address the discrepancy and treat it more in the
nature of a stop sign.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan H [mailto:da-@bicyclerepairman.us]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:28 AM
To: Jerry.-@comcast.net; ron-@spiritone.com;
sus-@teamestrogen.com; CycleO-@yahoogroups.com; 'obra';
shi-@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Code of Conduct (long, but hopefully worth your
time)
A substantial number of red lights I encounter are NOT designed to
sense
bikes.
That can be a problem. Usually a motorist will pull up behind me but
stop
too far back to trigger the signal thinking they are being courtious. I
look back and becon them forward pointing at the road immediatly behind
me
but most of the time I just get quizical looks like that RCA dog and
they
just sit there so I increase the amplitude of my signal with a big wave
of
my arm, like, "come here! See the big loop in the road? it's a metal
detector! Look!" About one in five will figure it out and pull forward
enough to trip the signal. I think a lot people still think the signal
uses
a pressure pad. They don't. That went out with the 70's.
If the motorist does not trip the signal in 2 cycles I'm forced to make
an
illegal manuever to get things going. Sometimes you just have to.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron strasser" <ron-@spiritone.com>
To: <sus-@teamestrogen.com>; <CycleO-@yahoogroups.com>; "'obra'"
<ob-@topica.com>; <shi-@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Code of Conduct (long, but hopefully worth
your
time)
I agree that the bottom line is for us cyclists to not break the
rules of
the road (especially in busy urban areas and country roads that have
poor
sightlines). The auto drivers that see rules being disobeyed or
have to
deal with it will not remember the other riders that are riding
properly.
I
urge cyclists to keep the respect of most motor vehicle drivers by
being
courteous and riding in a predictable manner. I know that we cannot
stop
a
driver from breaking the rules of the road...but two wrongs do not
make
a
right. Even when you are in a hurry on your rides, you make many
decisions
based on your own safety. I would urge all to consider obeying the
rules
of
the road as a personal safety decision... in the short and long
term.
ron strasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Otcenas" <sus-@teamestrogen.com>
To: <CycleO-@yahoogroups.com>; "'obra'" <ob-@topica.com>;
<shi-@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:05 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Code of Conduct (long, but hopefully worth your
time)
Apologies in advance for cross-posting to more than one e-list.
Yesterday, the Oregonian published a Letter to the Editor that I
wrote
after
reading about the latest hit-and-run here on the west side. Should
you
care
to read it, here's a link to my letter
http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/11
0639
8840172300.xml
as well as the original article
http://www.oregonlive.com/metrowest/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/metro_west
_new
s/110544844993880.xml
Predictably, yesterday evening I received an anonymous phone call
from
"Jack" who wanted to talk about my letter. Luckily, he wasn't a
nutcase,
and we had an hour-long conversation about the differences between
the
way
cyclists and motorists see the world. It was a productive
conversation,
with both of us conceding a few points.
Jack's biggest beef with cyclists was the way in which cyclists
often
seem
to flaunt the rules of the road. Running red lights and stop
signs,
riding
3 abreast or in packs that do not move over when vehicles approach
from
behind, failing to signal, etc. We demand "respect" and assert our
"rights", yet fail to observe the rules ourselves. Frankly, I
agree
with
him. Sure, motorists break the rules all the time, but it doesn't
matter.
WE CAN NOT OCCUPY THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHILE NOT OBEYING THE RULES
OURSELVES.
I want to start a discussion on a "code of conduct" of sorts.
### Note:
- If you wish to debate the evilness of autos, please start another
thread.
- If you wish to debate the war in Iraq, please start another
thread.
- If you wish to debate the FAIRNESS of said rules, DON'T start a
thread.
Pony up the bucks to join the BTA, or better yet volunteer your
time
with
them to advocate for change.
###
The fact is, the rules are the rules, such as they are. If we ever
wish
to
gain the respect of the motorists, we have to do a better job of
obeying
the
rules of the road. And we have to figure out a way to politely
tell
our
fellow cyclists that certain behavior is not acceptable. There's a
lot
to
be said for peer pressure.
In response to a recent post about police ticketing cyclists who
were
not
stopping at a particular intersection yesterday, I would very much
like
to
commend the OBRA members who pointed that no e-mail "warning"
should be
necessary. My favorite was:
"Remember the "three R's" of cycling:
Same road
Same rules
Same rights"
For myself, I'm making a pledge to do better. I know I can't/won't
be
perfect. But I'm going to re-double my efforts to stop at every
stop
sign
instead of sometimes rolling through when it's "clear". I'm going
to
ask
friends on group rides to be more conscious of approaching vehicles
so
that
we can be courteous to our fellow citizens by allowing them to
safely
pass.
I'm going to re-read "Pedal Power, A Legal Guide for Oregon
Bicyclists"
so
I
can be sure of my rights and responsibilities (free download
available
at
http://www.stc-law.com/bikepower.html ). I'm hoping that some of
you
will
also take some time to look at how you use your bicycle, and see if
there
isn't some small way in which you can improve as well. Every
action we
as
individuals take is seen as representative of our entire
class--especially
if it's a negative action, which reinforces what motorists already
think
and
expect.
So, I pose two questions:
1) What's the best way for individual cyclists to communicate with
other
individual cyclists, on the road, about behaving?
And
2) What would be the most effective way for an organization (like
the
BTA,
OBRA, the Wheelman, etc.) to do broad outreach to the cycling
community
on
this issue?
I apologize if this e-mail has come across as preachy. That's not
my
intent. I just think we need to figure out a way to peacefully
co-exist
with motorists and this seems like a good way to start. Please
don't
flame
me if you disagree. Constructive criticism and discussion welcome.
Susan
--------------------------------------------
Susan Otcenas
TEAM ESTROGEN, INC. __~o
2038 NW Aloclek Dr., Suite 220 -\_<,
Hillsboro, OR 97124 (*)/'(*)
http://www.TeamEstrogen.com
1-877-310-4592
--------------------------------------------
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