Jeff Wills

You betcha. Gotta work on the "aerobelly". :-)



Jeff





 What is training for recumbents? Laying in lounge chairs drinking beer?





I eagerly await your flaming responses.



-----Original Message-----

From: jwi-@pacifier.com [mailto:jwi-@pacifier.com]

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:12 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues





Hormann, Douglas J. wrote:

 

Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and quoting Heisenberg:)

Mmmm... Heisenberg... great beer! ;-)



Don't worry about us recumbent riders. We're all in "training" for the

Jack Frost time trial.



Jeff

http://www.ohpv.org/

mickw-@comcast.net

Maybe I should try that....those guys go FAST!!!



Who would flame you George??



-------------- Original message --------------

From: "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>



 What is training for recumbents? Laying in lounge chairs drinking beer?





I eagerly await your flaming responses.



-----Original Message-----

From: jwi-@pacifier.com [mailto:jwi-@pacifier.com]

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:12 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues





Hormann, Douglas J. wrote:

 

Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and quoting Heisenberg:)

Mmmm... Heisenberg... great beer! ;-)



Don't worry about us recumbent riders. We're all in "training" for the

Jack Frost time trial.



Jeff

http://www.ohpv.org/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else,

unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is

unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or

any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be

unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please

contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Steven B

Hey don't knock that kind of training as it's worked

quite well for us on HFV. :)





--- "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>

wrote:



 What is training for recumbents? Laying in lounge

chairs drinking beer?





I eagerly await your flaming responses.

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

Jay Rideout

So if all recumbent drivers were to chug a beer

simultaneously, would they disappear?



--- "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>

wrote:



 What is training for recumbents? Laying in lounge

chairs drinking beer?





I eagerly await your flaming responses.



-----Original Message-----

From: jwi-@pacifier.com

[mailto:jwi-@pacifier.com]

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:12 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues





Hormann, Douglas J. wrote:

 

Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and

quoting Heisenberg:)

 


Mmmm... Heisenberg... great beer! ;-)



Don't worry about us recumbent riders. We're all in

"training" for the

Jack Frost time trial.



Jeff

http://www.ohpv.org/



To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This email is confidential and may be legally

privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to

this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved

by the sender or an authorized addressee, is

unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any

disclosure, copying, distribution or any action

omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited

and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have

received this email in error, please contact the

sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.

==============================================================================

 

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

Schreck, George

What is training for recumbents? Laying in lounge chairs drinking beer?





I eagerly await your flaming responses.



-----Original Message-----

From: jwi-@pacifier.com [mailto:jwi-@pacifier.com]

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:12 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues





Hormann, Douglas J. wrote:

 

Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and quoting Heisenberg:)

Mmmm... Heisenberg... great beer! ;-)



Don't worry about us recumbent riders. We're all in "training" for the

Jack Frost time trial.



Jeff

http://www.ohpv.org/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

Hormann, Douglas J.

Are you sure?



Doug









 Mmmm... Heisenberg... great beer! ;-)

 Don't worry about us recumbent riders. We're all in "training" for the

Jack Frost time trial.



 Jeff

http://www.ohpv.org/



-----Original Message-----

From: jwi-@pacifier.com [mailto:jwi-@pacifier.com]

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:12 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues

jwi-@pacifier.com

Hormann, Douglas J. wrote:

 

Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and quoting Heisenberg:)

Mmmm... Heisenberg... great beer! ;-)



Don't worry about us recumbent riders. We're all in "training" for the

Jack Frost time trial.



Jeff

http://www.ohpv.org/

Hormann, Douglas J.

I suppose I deserved that.







Dep. Doug Hormann, WCSO

Office of Consolidated Emergency Management

20665 SW Blanton Street, Aloha, OR 97007

503.642.0374 - Work

503.807.7485 - Mobile/Pager

112*30326*128 - Nextel DC

do-@ocem.org

http://www.ocem.org



________________________________



From: Mark J. Ginsberg [mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:59 AM

To: Hormann, Douglas J.

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues







I'm certain! oh, no wait . . .



"Hormann, Douglas J." <Douglas.-@tvfr.com> wrote:



Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and quoting Heisenberg:)



Dep. Doug Hormann, WCSO

Office of Consolidated Emergency Management

20665 SW Blanton Street, Aloha, OR 97007

503.642.0374 - Work

503.807.7485 - Mobile/Pager

112*30326*128 - Nextel DC

do-@ocem.org

http://www.ocem.org



-----Original Message-----

From: Matthew Wolpert [mailto:matthew.-@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:45 PM

To: RCJoh-@attglobal.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues



Rick,



Nope, there are probably hundreds if not thousands of us types lurking

the shadows of OBRA chat.



;)

Matthew



On 1/23/06, RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 john schmidt wrote:

"natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to get higher

frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do both"



And I though I was the only one who hyperanalyzed things like this...



Rick



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

















Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com



________________________________



Do you Yahoo!?

With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mailstorage/*http:/mail.yahoo.c

om/>

Hormann, Douglas J.

Uh oh! Next they'll all be riding recumbents and quoting Heisenberg:)



Dep. Doug Hormann, WCSO

Office of Consolidated Emergency Management

20665 SW Blanton Street, Aloha, OR 97007

503.642.0374 - Work

503.807.7485 - Mobile/Pager

112*30326*128 - Nextel DC

do-@ocem.org

http://www.ocem.org



-----Original Message-----

From: Matthew Wolpert [mailto:matthew.-@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:45 PM

To: RCJoh-@attglobal.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Weight issues



Rick,



Nope, there are probably hundreds if not thousands of us types lurking

the shadows of OBRA chat.



;)

Matthew



On 1/23/06, RCJoh-@attglobal.net <RCJoh-@attglobal.net> wrote:

 john schmidt wrote:

"natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to get higher

frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do both"



And I though I was the only one who hyperanalyzed things like this...



Rick



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

C Anton

Everyone is missing out on the real style points here. Cut a Honey Bear

in half. Give everyone a chance to look at your "Bear Butt" the whole

ride.



C

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

Ah, you're all wrong.  The proper approach is to make it out of carbon

fiber (low mass / high rigidity) and charge 10X what it's really worth

because anything that looks that cool has to be good.

Then go home laughing.



Rick



Joel Morrissette wrote:

<blockquote cite="mid1790415409-1463-@boing.topica.com"

type="cite">

<blockquote class="gmail_quote"

style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">stiffness..

(natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to

get higher frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do

    

both)





Actually, you needn't increase the mass along the entire fender, just

farthest from the attachment point.  I'd have to find my mechanics

text, but you basically want to increase its moment of inertia about

the attachment point (the pivot).  One way to do this is stiffen it,

another to increase mass.  Another is to move the CG as far from the

pivot as you can.  Putting a large mass at the end increases its moment

of inertia and therefore lowers the frequency.  Think of the difference

between, say, the antenna on your car with and without one of those

antenna toppers.  Pluck it without one, and it will resonate at a

higher frequency than with.  Move the mass down the antenna, and the

natural frequency should increase.





So the short answer might be to zip-tie a couple cut washers to the end

of the fender, thereby increasing its moment of intertia about the

attach point.



I think that's right...I've been doing o-chem homework for 4 hours, so

this is a MAJOR context switch.





-Joel

Joel Morrissette

 

stiffness.. (natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to

get higher frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do

both)

Actually, you needn't increase the mass along the entire fender, just

farthest from the attachment point. I'd have to find my mechanics text, but

you basically want to increase its moment of inertia about the attachment

point (the pivot). One way to do this is stiffen it, another to increase

mass. Another is to move the CG as far from the pivot as you can. Putting

a large mass at the end increases its moment of inertia and therefore lowers

the frequency. Think of the difference between, say, the antenna on your

car with and without one of those antenna toppers. Pluck it without one,

and it will resonate at a higher frequency than with. Move the mass down

the antenna, and the natural frequency should increase.



So the short answer might be to zip-tie a couple cut washers to the end of

the fender, thereby increasing its moment of intertia about the attach

point.



I think that's right...I've been doing o-chem homework for 4 hours, so this

is a MAJOR context switch.



-Joel

Matthew Wolpert

Rick,



Nope, there are probably hundreds if not thousands of us types lurking

the shadows of OBRA chat.



;)

Matthew



On 1/23/06, RCJoh-@attglobal.net <RCJoh-@attglobal.net> wrote:

 john schmidt wrote:

"natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to get higher

frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do both"



And I though I was the only one who hyperanalyzed things like this...



Rick



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

john schmidt wrote:

"natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to get higher

frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do both"   



And I though I was the only one who hyperanalyzed things like this...



Rick

john schmidt

Ok only one more email from me today.. (I probably reached my weekly

quota anyway?) But heh its Monday and it was looking boring?



First, I personally don't care too much if I ride with people with

flaps and fenders or not. It was just a tip to make it less daunting

and time consuming. (a front flap though really does help keep the

chain cleaner, I was amazed at the difference it made on my bike..)   I

would much-much rather have people come out and group ride, then not

because they are worried about not having flaps or fenders. (now I

would change my tune if we were riding on wet roads covered in cow

manure.)



Second, I want to clarify the use of Zip ties (I forgot the Zip and

was calling them plastic ties). If you are going to use them in

"critical" situation, probably use the higher quality zip ties. The

ones made in china are great for most uses and they are cheap, but

sometimes the ratchet isn't formed well enough and they slip.   The high

quality ones actually have load ratings and will not slip.   Also don't

skimp, use multiple ties just in case one has a defect and fails. Also

probably never use a plastic tie where only it is the load carrying

member. unless you are sure and it has really good safety factor or it

is non critical if it breaks..   For example on my ski rack, the

plastic ties just hold the ski rack down against an interface, the

interface carries most of the load / force.   use common sense.. and

then inspect occasionally too !!    



AND Finally Weight Issues. When I was talking less weight, I did NOT

mean to make the bicycle lighter, that is to let you climb faster...



What I meant was less weight down low like that on the fender, lessons

the chance of the fender breaking!!   First , less weight simply means

less force. And second, less weight means higher natural frequency and

thus less chance of resonance and vibration. Things that resonate, that

aren't designed to resonate, usually break. (e.g. galloping gertie).

Actually my front fender broke on Saturday. We got on this one chip

sealed road and the bumps on the road caused an excitation frequency

that must have nearly matched my fender's natural frequency, a mile down

the road, the fender broke. It was kind of cool watching the fender

flutter... wow just like a humming bird? yeah and I actually thought

it would last till home where I had already planned to add some

stiffness.. (natural freq = square root of stiffness over mass, so to

get higher frequency either decrease mass or increase stiffness or do

both)   



But look all this talk of fenders made the sun come out !





rick martin wrote:

 

Here's a good plan... shed 5lbs off yourself & use as many bolts,

rivets, ect. As you want!    too funny     -ricke-

rick martin

Here's a good plan... shed 5lbs off yourself & use as many bolts, rivets, ect. As you want!    too funny     -ricke-