Mike Murray

The rule regarding protest could be changed. Just submit the proposed
change according to the procedure outlined at the beginning of the rules.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Schader
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:03 AM
To: Ted Turner; OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cherry Pie RR: Men Cat. 4 DQ's

Regarding the protest rule: it seems odd that disincentives, in the form of
a $10 fee and a very short 15 minute deadline for the written submission,
are required in filing a protest. I would think that OBRA would want to
encourage riders to self-police by officially reporting dangerous and
illegal behavior of fellow racers. However the rule just discourages people
from doing so. It actually favors those who would cross the center line or
otherwise take illegal advantage of the others in their race because they
know the others probably would not wish to pay to file a complaint.

Just out of curiosity, how many official protests were filed in the 2005
season?

Ted Turner wrote:

I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead group of Cat. 4's.
Several well-articulated and consistent observations submitted to me from
guys who were in that lead group contributed to my decision to reverse the
call. Thanks guys for taking the time to jot down your observations.

The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish was my first priority
as an official and I admit that I was extremely disappointed that I had to
summon an ambulance again -- for the third year in a row -- within a mile of
the finish. I was about to place my vehicle in the opposing lane to block
the field from drifting when, concurrently, the anxiety and tension in the
lead group reached a crescendo and the premature accelerations triggered the
crash.

Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations were from a few riders in
that group as well as spectators and finish line judges. However, we can't
confirm all of the race numbers of those in violation based on these
observations. I was fully aware at the time that I was punishing the entire
group f or the actions of a few.

When I worked as a USCF official in other states prior to coming to Oregon
about 10 years ago, I frequently received formal protests regarding rider
conduct. The protests were submitted in writing immediately after the race
along with the $10 fee. The Chief Referee could interview the parties
involved, including the official(s) that may have witnessed the violation,
prior to making a final decision. I don't think I have ever received a
formal protest as an OBRA official - at least not one that was submitted
quickly, in writing, and accompanied by the $10 fee. Several riders
mentioned problems in the Cat. 4 race, yet there were no written protests
that detailed the race numbers of those involved or what occurred.

So this may be a good time for everyone to review the protest rule. We
typically only have one official assigned per event. The official can't
witness every serious rule violation and it can be difficult or impossible
for the official to read the number of the rider that, for example, drifted
across the line near the front of the pack. I realize that most of you are
probably uncomfortable with self-policing race conduct, but the protest rule
is a valid way to do this. Protests are best when there is more than one
witness, the race numbers can be verified, and when all parties stick around
after the race to help the official make the call.

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the
Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be
forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the
protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest
and communicate them to all parties involved.

--------------------------------
Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
Geologist
Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
541.741.5597 (voice)
541.912.6664 (cell)
ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Candi Murray

Yes the $10 is refunded if the protest is upheld.

Here is the rules regarding protests

14. - PROTESTS

14.1 All protests concerning order of finish will be resolved by the Chief
Judge, whose decision is final and beyond appeal. No fee is required for
this type of protest.

14.2 All protests concerning qualification of rider(s) or equipment will be
resolved by the Chief Referee before the start of the race. No fee is
required for this type of protest. The Chief Referee must make a decision
before allowing the race to start.

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the
Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be
forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the
protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest
and communicate them to all parties involved.

14.4 The Chief Referee will keep the Chief Judge informed about any decision
or pending decision that could affect the results.

14.5 Any protest about the order of finish must be lodged within 15 minutes
of posting. There is no fee required for a protest about the results. In
stage races or series races results may be protested until the start of the
following stage or the next race in the series. For the final race in stage
races or the last race in series events and for all other races, if there
are no protest within 15 minutes of posting the results will be considered
final.

14.6 Prizes will not be distributed before15 minutes after the final posting
of results or before permission has been given to do so by the Chief Judge.

Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Schreck, George
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:52 AM
To: John Schader; Ted Turner; OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cherry Pie RR: Men Cat. 4 DQ's

Perhaps the solution is that the $10 be refunded if the protest is upheld.
It discourages frivolous protests and does not burden those that have merit.

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Schader
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:03 AM
To: Ted Turner; OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cherry Pie RR: Men Cat. 4 DQ's

Regarding the protest rule: it seems odd that disincentives, in the form of
a $10 fee and a very short 15 minute deadline for the written submission,
are required in filing a protest. I would think that OBRA would want to
encourage riders to self-police by officially reporting dangerous and
illegal behavior of fellow racers. However the rule just discourages people
from doing so. It actually favors those who would cross the center line or
otherwise take illegal advantage of the others in their race because they
know the others probably would not wish to pay to file a complaint.

Just out of curiosity, how many official protests were filed in the 2005
season?

Ted Turner wrote:

I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead group of Cat. 4's.
Several well-articulated and consistent observations submitted to me from
guys who were in that lead group contributed to my decision to reverse the
call. Thanks guys for taking the time to jot down your observations.

The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish was my first priority
as an official and I admit that I was extremely disappointed that I had to
summon an ambulance again -- for the third year in a row -- within a mile of
the finish. I was about to place my vehicle in the opposing lane to block
the field from drifting when, concurrently, the anxiety and tension in the
lead group reached a crescendo and the premature accelerations triggered the
crash.

Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations were from a few riders in
that group as well as spectators and finish line judges. However, we can't
confirm all of the race numbers of those in violation based on these
observations. I was fully aware at the time that I was punishing the entire
group f or the actions of a few.

When I worked as a USCF official in other states prior to coming to Oregon
about 10 years ago, I frequently received formal protests regarding rider
conduct. The protests were submitted in writing immediately after the race
along with the $10 fee. The Chief Referee could interview the parties
involved, including the official(s) that may have witnessed the violation,
prior to making a final decision. I don't think I have ever received a
formal protest as an OBRA official - at least not one that was submitted
quickly, in writing, and accompanied by the $10 fee. Several riders
mentioned problems in the Cat. 4 race, yet there were no written protests
that detailed the race numbers of those involved or what occurred.

So this may be a good time for everyone to review the protest rule. We
typically only have one official assigned per event. The official can't
witness every serious rule violation and it can be difficult or impossible
for the official to read the number of the rider that, for example, drifted
across the line near the front of the pack. I realize that most of you are
probably uncomfortable with self-policing race conduct, but the protest rule
is a valid way to do this. Protests are best when there is more than one
witness, the race numbers can be verified, and when all parties stick around
after the race to help the official make the call.

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the
Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be
forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the
protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest
and communicate them to all parties involved.

--------------------------------
Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
Geologist
Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
541.741.5597 (voice)
541.912.6664 (cell)
ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone
else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is
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If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution
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Ken Kenly

thank-you and good decision.

--- Ted Turner wrote:

> I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead
> group of Cat. 4?s. Several well-articulated and
> consistent observations submitted to me from guys
> who were in that lead group contributed to my
> decision to reverse the call. Thanks guys for
> taking the time to jot down your observations.
>
> The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish
> was my first priority as an official and I admit
> that I was extremely disappointed that I had to
> summon an ambulance again -- for the third year in a
> row -- within a mile of the finish. I was about to
> place my vehicle in the opposing lane to block the
> field from drifting when, concurrently, the anxiety
> and tension in the lead group reached a crescendo
> and the premature accelerations triggered the crash.
>
>
> Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations
> were from a few riders in that group as well as
> spectators and finish line judges. However, we
> can?t confirm all of the race numbers of those in
> violation based on these observations. I was fully
> aware at the time that I was punishing the entire
> group for the actions of a few.
>
> When I worked as a USCF official in other states
> prior to coming to Oregon about 10 years ago, I
> frequently received formal protests regarding rider
> conduct. The protests were submitted in writing
> immediately after the race along with the $10 fee.
> The Chief Referee could interview the parties
> involved, including the official(s) that may have
> witnessed the violation, prior to making a final
> decision. I don?t think I have ever received a
> formal protest as an OBRA official ? at least not
> one that was submitted quickly, in writing, and
> accompanied by the $10 fee. Several riders
> mentioned problems in the Cat. 4 race, yet there
> were no written protests that detailed the race
> numbers of those involved or what occurred.
>
> So this may be a good time for everyone to review
> the protest rule. We typically only have one
> official assigned per event. The official can?t
> witness every serious rule violation and it can be
> difficult or impossible for the official to read the
> number of the rider that, for example, drifted
> across the line near the front of the pack. I
> realize that most of you are probably uncomfortable
> with self-policing race conduct, but the protest
> rule is a valid way to do this. Protests are best
> when there is more than one witness, the race
> numbers can be verified, and when all parties stick
> around after the race to help the official make the
> call.
>
> 14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race
> will be presented to the Chief Referee in writing
> and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be
> forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15
> minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee
> will decide the results of the protest and
> communicate them to all parties involved.
>
> --------------------------------
> Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
> Geologist
> Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
> 541.741.5597 (voice)
> 541.912.6664 (cell)
> ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com
> > _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

__________________________________________________
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Suz Weldon

I think the 10 bucks is refunded if the protest is upheld.

Quoting John Schader :

> Regarding the protest rule: it seems odd that disincentives, in the
> form of a $10 fee and a very short 15 minute deadline for the written
> submission, are required in filing a protest. I would think that OBRA
> would want to encourage riders to self-police by officially reporting
> dangerous and illegal behavior of fellow racers. However the rule
> just discourages people from doing so. It actually favors those who
> would cross the center line or otherwise take illegal advantage of
> the others in their race because they know the others probably would
> not wish to pay to file a complaint.
>
> Just out of curiosity, how many official protests were filed in the
> 2005 season?
>
> Ted Turner wrote:
> I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead group of Cat.
> 4?s. Several well-articulated and consistent observations submitted
> to me from guys who were in that lead group contributed to my
> decision to reverse the call. Thanks guys for taking the time to jot
> down your observations.
>
> The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish was my first
> priority as an official and I admit that I was extremely disappointed
> that I had to summon an ambulance again -- for the third year in a
> row -- within a mile of the finish. I was about to place my vehicle
> in the opposing lane to block the field from drifting when,
> concurrently, the anxiety and tension in the lead group reached a
> crescendo and the premature accelerations triggered the crash.
>
> Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations were from a few
> riders in that group as well as spectators and finish line judges.
> However, we can?t confirm all of the race numbers of those in
> violation based on these observations. I was fully aware at the time
> that I was punishing the entire group for the actions of a few.
>
> When I worked as a USCF official in other states prior to coming to
> Oregon about 10 years ago, I frequently received formal protests
> regarding rider conduct. The protests were submitted in writing
> immediately after the race along with the $10 fee. The Chief Referee
> could interview the parties involved, including the official(s) that
> may have witnessed the violation, prior to making a final decision. I
> don?t think I have ever received a formal protest as an OBRA official
> ? at least not one that was submitted quickly, in writing, and
> accompanied by the $10 fee. Several riders mentioned problems in the
> Cat. 4 race, yet there were no written protests that detailed the
> race numbers of those involved or what occurred.
>
> So this may be a good time for everyone to review the protest rule.
> We typically only have one official assigned per event. The official
> can?t witness every serious rule violation and it can be difficult or
> impossible for the official to read the number of the rider that, for
> example, drifted across the line near the front of the pack. I
> realize that most of you are probably uncomfortable with
> self-policing race conduct, but the protest rule is a valid way to do
> this. Protests are best when there is more than one witness, the race
> numbers can be verified, and when all parties stick around after the
> race to help the official make the call.
>
> 14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented
> to the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10,
> which will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15
> minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the
> results of the protest and communicate them to all parties involved.
>
> --------------------------------
> Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
> Geologist
> Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
> 541.741.5597 (voice)
> 541.912.6664 (cell)
> ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

Schreck, George

Perhaps the solution is that the $10 be refunded if the protest is
upheld. It discourages frivolous protests and does not burden those
that have merit.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Schader
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:03 AM
To: Ted Turner; OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cherry Pie RR: Men Cat. 4 DQ's

Regarding the protest rule: it seems odd that disincentives, in the form
of a $10 fee and a very short 15 minute deadline for the written
submission, are required in filing a protest. I would think that OBRA
would want to encourage riders to self-police by officially reporting
dangerous and illegal behavior of fellow racers. However the rule just
discourages people from doing so. It actually favors those who would
cross the center line or otherwise take illegal advantage of the others
in their race because they know the others probably would not wish to
pay to file a complaint.

Just out of curiosity, how many official protests were filed in the 2005
season?

Ted Turner wrote:

I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead group of Cat.
4's. Several well-articulated and consistent observations submitted to
me from guys who were in that lead group contributed to my decision to
reverse the call. Thanks guys for taking the time to jot down your
observations.

The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish was my
first priority as an official and I admit that I was extremely
disappointed that I had to summon an ambulance again -- for the third
year in a row -- within a mile of the finish. I was about to place my
vehicle in the opposing lane to block the field from drifting when,
concurrently, the anxiety and tension in the lead group reached a
crescendo and the premature accelerations triggered the crash.

Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations were from a
few riders in that group as well as spectators and finish line judges.
However, we can't confirm all of the race numbers of those in violation
based on these observations. I was fully aware at the time that I was
punishing the entire group f or the actions of a few.

When I worked as a USCF official in other states prior to coming
to Oregon about 10 years ago, I frequently received formal protests
regarding rider conduct. The protests were submitted in writing
immediately after the race along with the $10 fee. The Chief Referee
could interview the parties involved, including the official(s) that may
have witnessed the violation, prior to making a final decision. I don't
think I have ever received a formal protest as an OBRA official - at
least not one that was submitted quickly, in writing, and accompanied by
the $10 fee. Several riders mentioned problems in the Cat. 4 race, yet
there were no written protests that detailed the race numbers of those
involved or what occurred.

So this may be a good time for everyone to review the protest
rule. We typically only have one official assigned per event. The
official can't witness every serious rule violation and it can be
difficult or impossible for the official to read the number of the rider
that, for example, drifted across the line near the front of the pack. I
realize that most of you are probably uncomfortable with self-policing
race conduct, but the protest rule is a valid way to do this. Protests
are best when there is more than one witness, the race numbers can be
verified, and when all parties stick around after the race to help the
official make the call.

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be
presented to the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of
$10, which will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15
minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the
results of the protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

--------------------------------
Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
Geologist
Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
541.741.5597 (voice)
541.912.6664 (cell)
ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.

It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.

If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.

==============================================================================

John Schader

Regarding the protest rule: it seems odd that disincentives, in the form of a $10 fee and a very short 15 minute deadline for the written submission, are required in filing a protest. I would think that OBRA would want to encourage riders to self-police by officially reporting dangerous and illegal behavior of fellow racers. However the rule just discourages people from doing so. It actually favors those who would cross the center line or otherwise take illegal advantage of the others in their race because they know the others probably would not wish to pay to file a complaint.

Just out of curiosity, how many official protests were filed in the 2005 season?

Ted Turner wrote:
I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead group of Cat. 4?s. Several well-articulated and consistent observations submitted to me from guys who were in that lead group contributed to my decision to reverse the call. Thanks guys for taking the time to jot down your observations.

The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish was my first priority as an official and I admit that I was extremely disappointed that I had to summon an ambulance again -- for the third year in a row -- within a mile of the finish. I was about to place my vehicle in the opposing lane to block the field from drifting when, concurrently, the anxiety and tension in the lead group reached a crescendo and the premature accelerations triggered the crash.

Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations were from a few riders in that group as well as spectators and finish line judges. However, we can?t confirm all of the race numbers of those in violation based on these observations. I was fully aware at the time that I was punishing the entire group for the actions of a few.

When I worked as a USCF official in other states prior to coming to Oregon about 10 years ago, I frequently received formal protests regarding rider conduct. The protests were submitted in writing immediately after the race along with the $10 fee. The Chief Referee could interview the parties involved, including the official(s) that may have witnessed the violation, prior to making a final decision. I don?t think I have ever received a formal protest as an OBRA official ? at least not one that was submitted quickly, in writing, and accompanied by the $10 fee. Several riders mentioned problems in the Cat. 4 race, yet there were no written protests that detailed the race numbers of those involved or what occurred.

So this may be a good time for everyone to review the protest rule. We typically only have one official assigned per event. The official can?t witness every serious rule violation and it can be difficult or impossible for the official to read the number of the rider that, for example, drifted across the line near the front of the pack. I realize that most of you are probably uncomfortable with self-policing race conduct, but the protest rule is a valid way to do this. Protests are best when there is more than one witness, the race numbers can be verified, and when all parties stick around after the race to help the official make the call.

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

--------------------------------
Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
Geologist
Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
541.741.5597 (voice)
541.912.6664 (cell)
ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
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Ted Turner

I have rescinded the DQ that I applied to the lead group of Cat. 4?s. Several well-articulated and consistent observations submitted to me from guys who were in that lead group contributed to my decision to reverse the call. Thanks guys for taking the time to jot down your observations.

The crash that occurred about a mile from the finish was my first priority as an official and I admit that I was extremely disappointed that I had to summon an ambulance again -- for the third year in a row -- within a mile of the finish. I was about to place my vehicle in the opposing lane to block the field from drifting when, concurrently, the anxiety and tension in the lead group reached a crescendo and the premature accelerations triggered the crash.

Observations of the pre-200m centerline violations were from a few riders in that group as well as spectators and finish line judges. However, we can?t confirm all of the race numbers of those in violation based on these observations. I was fully aware at the time that I was punishing the entire group for the actions of a few.

When I worked as a USCF official in other states prior to coming to Oregon about 10 years ago, I frequently received formal protests regarding rider conduct. The protests were submitted in writing immediately after the race along with the $10 fee. The Chief Referee could interview the parties involved, including the official(s) that may have witnessed the violation, prior to making a final decision. I don?t think I have ever received a formal protest as an OBRA official ? at least not one that was submitted quickly, in writing, and accompanied by the $10 fee. Several riders mentioned problems in the Cat. 4 race, yet there were no written protests that detailed the race numbers of those involved or what occurred.

So this may be a good time for everyone to review the protest rule. We typically only have one official assigned per event. The official can?t witness every serious rule violation and it can be difficult or impossible for the official to read the number of the rider that, for example, drifted across the line near the front of the pack. I realize that most of you are probably uncomfortable with self-policing race conduct, but the protest rule is a valid way to do this. Protests are best when there is more than one witness, the race numbers can be verified, and when all parties stick around after the race to help the official make the call.

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

--------------------------------
Ted Turner, R.G., L.E.G.
Geologist
Weyerhaeuser Forestry Research
541.741.5597 (voice)
541.912.6664 (cell)
ted.turner@weyerhaeuser.com