OBRA: OBRA Chat: Re: Multnomah County Judge'...

George de Randich

2006-07-30

Mike,
Anything made by man can and will break given the correct circumstances!
George de Randich

-------Original Message-------

From: Mike Murray
Date: 07/29/06 18:12:19
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

Yep , they do break (in contrast to what George says later). In fact they
Probably break at somewhere near the frequency that chains break although
Current brake cables are less likely to break than in the past. In contrast
Modern chains are more likely to break than old 5 speed chains. Failure of
A brake is a reason to have 2 brakes on a freewheel bike. Since a fixed
Gear has another way to stop it only needs one brake to give you sufficient
Redundancy and that should be on the front. A coaster brake bike will be at
Similar risk to a fixed gear if the chain breaks but they are only put on
Bikes not designed to go very fast. In fact, is a full size adult on a
Large wheel bike can melt a coaster brake on a decent descent:

http://www.bicyclesource.com/bike/choosing/brakes-paper.shtml

It seems clear to me that if a coaster brake alone is legal then a fixed
Gear alone should also be legal, although I would not suggest it (not that I

Did not do it when I was young and stupid.).

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Becky and Nikos
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 21:51 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

Don't brake cables break?

Seriously, aren't the risks similar?

Nikos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Austin"
To: ; "J.Michael Manning"
Cc: ;
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

> Sometimes chains brake.
>
> Sometimes chains break.
>
> If the latter happens, and I have no brakes, I might end up with
> several breaks.
>
> Craig

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Mike Murray

2006-07-29

Yep , they do break (in contrast to what George says later). In fact they
probably break at somewhere near the frequency that chains break although
current brake cables are less likely to break than in the past. In contrast
modern chains are more likely to break than old 5 speed chains. Failure of
a brake is a reason to have 2 brakes on a freewheel bike. Since a fixed
gear has another way to stop it only needs one brake to give you sufficient
redundancy and that should be on the front. A coaster brake bike will be at
similar risk to a fixed gear if the chain breaks but they are only put on
bikes not designed to go very fast. In fact, is a full size adult on a
large wheel bike can melt a coaster brake on a decent descent:

http://www.bicyclesource.com/bike/choosing/brakes-paper.shtml

It seems clear to me that if a coaster brake alone is legal then a fixed
gear alone should also be legal, although I would not suggest it (not that I
did not do it when I was young and stupid.).

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Becky and Nikos
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 21:51 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

Don't brake cables break?

Seriously, aren't the risks similar?

Nikos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Austin"
To: ; "J.Michael Manning"
Cc: ;
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

> Sometimes chains brake.
>
> Sometimes chains break.
>
> If the latter happens, and I have no brakes, I might end up with
> several breaks.
>
> Craig

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Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2006-07-29

I have broken ONE brake cable since 1969 and that is covers many thousands
of miles and alot of very hard breaking. They are very strong!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "GEORGE SCHRECK"
To: ;
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

> No. Brake cables seldom break, and if a bike is properly maintained,
> it is even more unlikely.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: nikobeck@dslnorthwest.net
> Date: 07/28/2006 9:50 PM
> To:
> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-
> gearBikes
>
> Don't brake cables break?
>
> Seriously, aren't the risks similar?
>
> Nikos
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Austin"
> To: ; "J.Michael Manning"
> Cc: ;
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-
> gearBikes
>
>
>> Sometimes chains brake.
>>
>> Sometimes chains break.
>>
>> If the latter happens, and I have no brakes, I might end up with
> several
>> breaks.
>>
>> Craig
>
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>
>
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Becky and Nikos

2006-07-29

I should have said: "Don't brake cables break Officer Barnum?"

I know for a fact that both brake cables and chains break. Not on a properly
maintained bike, or one with properly manufactured components, but it can
happen. I meant my comment as a counterpoint to the officer's question:
"What would you do if your chain broke?"

Nikos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Becky and Nikos"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

> Don't brake cables break?
>
> Seriously, aren't the risks similar?
>
> Nikos

Erik Voldengen

2006-07-29

The same could be said for chains, especially a 1/8 fixxie chain.

On a bike with a fat chain and caliper brake, I'd put my money on the cable
failing before the chain does. They last a very long time.

-Erik

> No. Brake cables seldom break, and if a bike is properly maintained,
> it is even more unlikely.
>
> ----Original Message----
>
> Don't brake cables break?
>
> Seriously, aren't the risks similar?
>
> Nikos

GEORGE SCHRECK

2006-07-29

No. Brake cables seldom break, and if a bike is properly maintained,
it is even more unlikely.

----Original Message----
From: nikobeck@dslnorthwest.net
Date: 07/28/2006 9:50 PM
To:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-
gearBikes

Don't brake cables break?

Seriously, aren't the risks similar?

Nikos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Austin"
To: ; "J.Michael Manning"
Cc: ;
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-
gearBikes

> Sometimes chains brake.
>
> Sometimes chains break.
>
> If the latter happens, and I have no brakes, I might end up with
several
> breaks.
>
> Craig

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Becky and Nikos

2006-07-28

Don't brake cables break?

Seriously, aren't the risks similar?

Nikos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Austin"
To: ; "J.Michael Manning"
Cc: ;
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

> Sometimes chains brake.
>
> Sometimes chains break.
>
> If the latter happens, and I have no brakes, I might end up with several
> breaks.
>
> Craig

KG

2006-07-28

No different than a coaster brake...

----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Austin
To: joec@aracnet.com; J.Michael Manning
Cc: gschreckchat@hughes.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:57:24 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gearBikes

Sometimes chains brake.

Sometimes chains break.

If the latter happens, and I have no brakes, I might end up with several
breaks.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Cipale
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:53 PM
To: J.Michael Manning
Cc: gschreckchat@hughes.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling:
Fixed-gearBikes

Amen...

J.Michael Manning wrote:

> I have to agree with George. In fact, I installed a brake on my fixie
> just because it makes me feel more secure. It's not that I don't trust

> my handling skills...it's the idiots we encounter on the roads that
> may require a sudden response. I know...I'm not a purist. Call me a
> weanie or worse. I will always practice safety first when dealing with

> gas guzzling rednecks on roids.
> Mike Manning
>
>
> >From: GEORGE SCHRECK
> >Reply-To: GEORGE SCHRECK
> >To: ,
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling:
> >Fixed-gearBikes MustHave a Brake
> >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:59:51 +0000 (UTC)
> >
> >
> >1. I do not see why someone would be resistant to a brake. Although
> >they may be able to stop without one, there may be panic situations
> >where a brake would be helpful. If it turns out that they never need

> >it, I consider that good news for them.
> >
> >2. If we wish to have the rights as vehicles, we should comply with
> >the rules that apply to vehicles like functioning brakes and lights
> >at night (not ot mention obeying stop signs and traffic lights).
> >
> >----Original Message----
> >From: tokarev1@ix.netcom.com
> >Date: 07/28/2006 10:19 AM
> >To:
> >Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gear
> >Bikes MustHave a Brake
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >That was very interesting to read!
> >
> >I side with Mark and the messenger here and thought Mark's cross
> >examination was great!
> >I believe that one can be completely safe on a brakeless fixie. I
> >have taken a few rides with Zac Kovalcik and am amazed by his ability

> >on the brake free machine. I myself have two brakes on my fixed gear
> >bicycle. :)
> >
> >I predict that there will be tremendous resistance from the brakeless

> >crowd about having to put a brake on their ride. Even if they never
> >have to use it it wont do anything harmful to their job or bike. I am

> >afraid that the only harm will be to their sense of fashion and would

> >hate for all fixies, brakes or not, to be outlawed!!
> >
> >-Keith
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
> >Behalf Of Curt Dewees
> >Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:56 AM
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Multnomah County Judge's Ruling: Fixed-gear
> >Bikes MustHave a Brake
> >
> >
> >This account included blow-by-blow testimony from the judge, police
> >officer, and the defendant's lawyer (some dude named Mark Ginsberg?
> >
> >http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/judge-finds-fault-with-fixies/
> >
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
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>
>
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Mark J. Ginsberg

2006-07-28

but the chain wasn't broken, so when she got pulled over that wasn't the issue was it?

Craig Austin wrote: Sometimes chains brake.