galen mittermann
2 minutes in a TT is a 3% speed difference (purely overcoming wind resistance) for both riders going flat out - and an 8.9% power difference at 400W vs 436W. Most riders in a grand tour don't go all out in a TT, usually just enough to make the time cut. The GC contenders are the only ones going to the limit. Hence domestiques being 10minutes back. Uphill, that power difference is going to make a much greater time difference since power to weight ratios matter more and mroe and aerodynamic drag drops off considerably.
To put it in perspective most of us can relate to: 436W @ 70kg (154 lbs) is the same as 400W @ 64.3kg (141.5 lbs)... in other words, that 9% more power gains you the same as loosing 5.7kg (12.5lbs) when the road gets steep, for an already skinny pro cyclist.
For a good real world feel for the difference drugs make, take a look at David Millar:
pre-drugs: stage winner. big time rider. world champ.
post-drugs: strong domestique, nothing extraordinary. an also-ran.
-----Original Message-----
Although 2 minutes in one hour is huge it is on the order of the difference
between 1st and 10th in a TT. Somewhat less that the difference between a
top rider and a mediocre domestique which is more on the order of 10
minutes. The difference is 3% rather than the 10% earlier suggested.
My recurring point is that it is not good to oversell the benefit of doping.
This only acts as marketing to increase doping. The same can be said for
the current testing program which focuses on only elite athletes ensuring
that the only athletes caught will be elite athletes. This sends out the
message that you have to dope in order to perform well, which is not true.
Catching non-elite dopers would send a much more accurate message.
The bottom line is that this is not so much a cheating issue, as it is most
commonly presented, but more of an issue of substance abuse.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)
There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists.
Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below.
For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP =
functional threshold power
The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818
/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de
"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.
Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?
For extra credit, would this have accounted for
the entire gap in the ITT?
-- jens "
"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .
If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,
I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.
http://tinyurl.com/2reu98
Jason. "
"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.
So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.
Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.
Dan "
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