Mike Murray
The cost of providing medical care to people injured in bicycle accidents
that might have been mitigated by a helmet is truly a drop in the ocean.
This is just not a significant portion of health care costs. Even if no one
wore bike helmets there is no reason why health insurance costs should go up
related to this. In fact, this is also true for motorcycle injuries. Seat
belt use in cars does reach the level of being a non-trivial cost but
interestingly health insurance and car insurance costs are not lower in
states that require seat belt use; the savings just go to the insurance
companies.
The biggest problem with mandatory helmet laws is that it promotes the idea
that riding a bike is dangerous. Frankly, in the grand scheme of things it
is not all that more dangerous than many other activities that we do without
considering risk. People get hurt doing lots of thing (thank goodness
because that is what keeps me employed). This false sense of danger keeps
people from riding bikes. As a society we would be far better off if we had
more people riding bikes, helmeted or not.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Burney
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 16:57 PM
To: 'Rick Johnson'; 'C M'
Cc: 'OBRA List'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
Rick,
I would agree with you IF society did not pick up the tab for those who
survive their own decisions. We all pay higher medical insurance costs for
those who decide to go without health insurance. If the rider is not killed
for lack of a helmet, all our health insurance rates go up for the extra
medical care required for the individual. This is true whether or not that
rider has his own health insurance.
If he/she does not have that insurance, all of us who do will pay even more
for our own insurance.
If that rider is crippled, Social Security disability insurance will pay,
which costs society even more.
In short, I am all in favor of self determination so long as the individual
is not impacting others by their own decision. That is rarely the case.
Robert Burney, JD
President
RE Burney & Associates, Inc.
8285 SW Nimbus Ave., Suite 124
Beaverton, OR 97008
Brokerage of Life Insurance, Annuities,
Long Term Care and Disability Insurance.
Office: 503-608-7813
Cell: 503-502-4289
EFax: 503-210-1595
Email: robert@reburney.com
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From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:44 PM
To: C M
Cc: OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
Please speak for yourself only. I'm in favor of letting the individual
decide how valuable their brains are. If someone doesn't think their gray
matter is worth protecting I say let nature take it's course.
Rick
C M wrote:
I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of us in OBRA land are
strongly in favor of wearing helemts and requiring others to do the same.
The question is how do we get the word out to the policy makers ?
On 2/26/08, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:
Michael,
I don't disagree, but folks who study these things have reached these
conclusions.
as for kids and helmets, in Oregon it is 16 and under. ors 814.488, for
those under 11 the adult gets the ticket, for those over 11, the kid gets
the ticket.
Mark
Michael Benno wrote:
Mark, that is a good point if the cost of a helmet was significant. However
I would argue that point as being a barrier to owning a helmet.
New helmets are very affordable (under $40) and used helmets are essentially
free. I did a quick scan of craigslist and found several helmets ranging in
price from Free to $20 on the first page alone. At what price were you
thinking helmets would no longer be a barrier?
Case in point: I had 4 excess helmets in my basement. These are all top line
race helmets (Giro, Bell, Lima, Lazer) with all with retail prices over $90.
I tried to sell them in craigslist for $10 each. No bites! I posted them on
craigslist for free, again no bites! I put them on my curb and was only able
to get rid of one (I live on a bike route).
Personally I think price is not a significant resitance to obtaining them.
Let me remind you all that kids under 10 are required to have helmets for
bikes, skateboards, scooters. So why not adults?
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark J. Ginsberg markjginsberg@yahoo.com
while it is not my personal view, the resistance to requiring helmets, is
that for those who can't afford much, adding an additional requirement makes
biking that much harder, and there are studies that show that measurable
amounts of people won't bike if they must wear a helmet.
so while I wear my helmet religiously, for a person who is just getting
started (who maybe needs a helmet the most), to force them to wear a helmet
can mean they don't even start riding a bike.
Mark
Michael Benno wrote:
Personally, I applaud this effort and wish PDX would step up, as a leader in
the bicycle movement, and do the same. I'm not a safety natzi or anything,
but I just don't see the need to not require helmets. I have three I'd be
willing to donate to the cause.
----- Original Message ----
From: "jon.ragsdale@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:40:49 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
There is a story on the front page of www.kgw.com
reporting that Vancouver has enacted a rule that in 30 days all cyclists
will be required to wear helmets. Full story:
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_022608_news_vancouver_helmet_law_b
icycle.2edad9de.html
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Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
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Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
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