David Hart
post #24, how many more?
I would say the law is good for those under 18. If you chose not to wear a
helmet when you are an adult, that's your personal choice. Being older and
maybe a little wiser and maybe being an auto claims adjuster, I think the
same for seatbelts. BUT more injuries in autos makes your rates go up. So to
be honest, I take my lid off when I am on a bike trail on a hot day. It's
just nice to have the wind over my near-balded head. Now when I am on the
open road, you bet I got my lid on.
For a fun note, I crashed my bmx bike when I was 15 on good ol asphalt.
Wearing shorts, no shirt, no helmet and bombing down a hill when I went a$$
over tea kettle. I had one scratch on my head but broke my arm in 6 places
and had road rash from my shin to my hip.
"On the other hand, Darwin had some good points too. Bombing down
Springville from Skyline without a helmet is sort of evolution/natural
selection in action"
good point too, I concur
2008/2/26 :
> I hate legislating safety. I'm an avid motorcyclist as well as bike
> rider, and ALWAYS wear a full face on the moto and a good Gyro on the bike
> (the helmet; not the tasty sandwich). I've been in decent bash-ups on both,
> and was glad I was wearing it. Nonetheless, the decision was mine to make,
> not the governments. Having said that, I'm also in favor of insurance
> riders in the contract that require much higher premiums unless you ride
> with appropriate gear, and if you get into an accident without a lower
> payout. It should be your decision, but Robert has a great point.
>
> On the other hand, Darwin had some good points too. Bombing down
> Springville from Skyline without a helmet is sort of evolution/natural
> selection in action.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Murray
> To: 'OBRA List'
> Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 7:24 pm
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
>
> The cost of providing medical care to people injured in bicycle accidents
> that might have been mitigated by a helmet is truly a drop in the ocean.
> This is just not a significant portion of health care costs. Even if no one
> wore bike helmets there is no reason why health insurance costs should go up
> related to this. In fact, this is also true for motorcycle injuries. Seat
> belt use in cars does reach the level of being a non-trivial cost but
> interestingly health insurance and car insurance costs are not lower in
> states that require seat belt use; the savings just go to the insurance
> companies.
>
> The biggest problem with mandatory helmet laws is that it promotes the
> idea that riding a bike is dangerous. Frankly, in the grand scheme of
> things it is not all that more dangerous than many other activities that we
> do without considering risk. People get hurt doing lots of thing (thank
> goodness because that is what keeps me employed). This false sense of
> danger keeps people from riding bikes. As a society we would be far better
> off if we had more people riding bikes, helmeted or not.
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Robert Burney
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 26, 2008 16:57 PM
> *To:* 'Rick Johnson'; 'C M'
> *Cc:* 'OBRA List'
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
>
> Rick,
> I would agree with you IF society did not pick up the tab for those who
> survive their own decisions. We all pay higher medical insurance costs for
> those who decide to go without health insurance. If the rider is not killed
> for lack of a helmet, all our health insurance rates go up for the extra
> medical care required for the individual. This is true whether or not that
> rider has his own health insurance.
> If he/she does not have that insurance, all of us who do will pay even
> more for our own insurance.
> If that rider is crippled, Social Security disability insurance will pay,
> which costs society even more.
>
> In short, I am all in favor of self determination so long as the
> individual is not impacting others by their own decision. That is rarely
> the case.
>
>
> Robert Burney, JD
> President
>
> RE Burney & Associates, Inc.
> 8285 SW Nimbus Ave., Suite 124
> Beaverton, OR 97008
>
> Brokerage of Life Insurance, Annuities,
> Long Term Care and Disability Insurance.
>
> Office: 503-608-7813
> Cell: 503-502-4289
> EFax: 503-210-1595
> Email: robert@reburney.com
> ------------------------------
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Rick Johnson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:44 PM
> *To:* C M
> *Cc:* OBRA List
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
>
> Please speak for yourself only. I'm in favor of letting the individual
> decide how valuable their brains are. If someone doesn't think their gray
> matter is worth protecting I say let nature take it's course.
>
> Rick
>
> C M wrote:
> I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of us in OBRA land are
> strongly in favor of wearing helemts and requiring others to do the same.
> The question is how do we get the word out to the policy makers ?
> On 2/26/08, *Mark J. Ginsberg* wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I don't disagree, but folks who study these things have reached these
> conclusions.
>
> as for kids and helmets, in Oregon it is 16 and under. ors 814.488, for
> those under 11 the adult gets the ticket, for those over 11, the kid gets
> the ticket.
>
>
> Mark
>
> *Michael Benno * wrote:
> Mark, that is a good point if the cost of a helmet was significant.
> However I would argue that point as being a barrier to owning a helmet.
>
> New helmets are very affordable (under $40) and used helmets are
> essentially free. I did a quick scan of craigslist and found several helmets
> ranging in price from Free to $20 on the first page alone. At what price
> were you thinking helmets would no longer be a barrier?
>
> Case in point: I had 4 excess helmets in my basement. These are all top
> line race helmets (Giro, Bell, Lima, Lazer) with all with retail prices over
> $90. I tried to sell them in craigslist for $10 each. No bites! I posted
> them on craigslist for free, again no bites! I put them on my curb and was
> only able to get rid of one (I live on a bike route).
>
> Personally I think price is not a significant resitance to obtaining
> them. Let me remind you all that kids under 10 are required to have helmets
> for bikes, skateboards, scooters. So why not adults?
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark J. Ginsberg markjginsberg@yahoo.com
>
> while it is not my personal view, the resistance to requiring helmets, is
> that for those who can't afford much, adding an additional requirement makes
> biking that much harder, and there are studies that show that measurable
> amounts of people won't bike if they must wear a helmet.
>
> so while I wear my helmet religiously, for a person who is just getting
> started (who maybe needs a helmet the most), to force them to wear a helmet
> can mean they don't even start riding a bike.
>
> Mark
>
> *Michael Benno * wrote:
>
> Personally, I applaud this effort and wish PDX would step up, as a leader
> in the bicycle movement, and do the same. I'm not a safety natzi or
> anything, but I just don't see the need to not require helmets. I have three
> I'd be willing to donate to the cause.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "jon.ragsdale@comcast.net"
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:40:49 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
> There is a story on the front page of www.kgw.com reporting that
> Vancouver has enacted a rule that in 30 days all cyclists will be required
> to wear helmets. Full story:
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_022608_news_vancouver_helmet_law_bicycle.2edad9de.html
>
>
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>
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Attorney At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
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>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Attorney At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
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