Jay Rideout
Hey Gary,
Just another attempt at social engineering... dictated by our pocketbook. Anyway, on the other item, as unfortunate as it may seem, our safety/laws/engineering applications (planes, trains, automobiles, and bicycles) are all designed balancing safety and economics.
The sad thing is there are people making everyday decisions about how we are to live our lives based on the most extreme ends of the bell curve (1/1,000,000) instead of following a more common sense approach... hmmmm, is common sense an uncommon attribute?
Best,
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Malcolm
To: OBRA List
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:27:10 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
One More?
This argument is ridiculous.
By the same logic we should outlaw insurance (hmmm
) and while youre at it outlaw those cancerous rays from the sun too, for all the good that will do.
I cry crocodile tears for your poor burdened wallet that so needs to be padded by nibbling away at any whim of liberty I might dream of having. Why dont I just send you money and then wrap myself in pillows and duct tape? Equating the control of personal behavior with a monetary value is a disgusting, pandering, covetous and apparently, all-american pastime, but is still not worthy of regard by free men and women.
By my level of sarcasm you might be able to tell that I tire of having self elected nannies dictate my life. Havent you?
Regards,
Gary Malcolm
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Robert Burney
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:57 PM
To: 'Rick Johnson'; 'C M'
Cc: 'OBRA List'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver , WA
Rick,
I would agree with you IF society did not pick up the tab for those who survive their own decisions. We all pay higher medical insurance costs for those who decide to go without health insurance. If the rider is not killed for lack of a helmet, all our health insurance rates go up for the extra medical care required for the individual. This is true whether or not that rider has his own health insurance.
If he/she does not have that insurance, all of us who do will pay even more for our own insurance.
If that rider is crippled, Social Security disability insurance will pay, which costs society even more.
In short, I am all in favor of self determination so long as the individual is not impacting others by their own decision. That is rarely the case.
Robert Burney, JD
President
RE Burney & Associates, Inc.
8285 SW Nimbus Ave., Suite 124
Beaverton, OR 97008
Brokerage of Life Insurance, Annuities,
Long Term Care and Disability Insurance.
Office: 503-608-7813
Cell: 503-502-4289
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Email: robert@reburney.com
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:44 PM
To: C M
Cc: OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver , WA
Please speak for yourself only. I'm in favor of letting the individual decide how valuable their brains are. If someone doesn't think their gray matter is worth protecting I say let nature take it's course.
Rick
C M wrote:
I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of us in OBRA land are strongly in favor of wearing helemts and requiring others to do the same. The question is how do we get the word out to the policy makers ?
On 2/26/08, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:
Michael,
I don't disagree, but folks who study these things have reached these conclusions.
as for kids and helmets, in Oregon it is 16 and under. ors 814.488, for those under 11 the adult gets the ticket, for those over 11, the kid gets the ticket.
Mark
Michael Benno wrote:
Mark, that is a good point if the cost of a helmet was significant. However I would argue that point as being a barrier to owning a helmet.
New helmets are very affordable (under $40) and used helmets are essentially free. I did a quick scan of craigslist and found several helmets ranging in price from Free to $20 on the first page alone. At what price were you thinking helmets would no longer be a barrier?
Case in point: I had 4 excess helmets in my basement. These are all top line race helmets (Giro, Bell, Lima, Lazer) with all with retail prices over $90. I tried to sell them in craigslist for $10 each. No bites! I posted them on craigslist for free, again no bites! I put them on my curb and was only able to get rid of one (I live on a bike route).
Personally I think price is not a significant resitance to obtaining them. Let me remind you all that kids under 10 are required to have helmets for bikes, skateboards, scooters. So why not adults?
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark J. Ginsberg markjginsberg@yahoo.com
while it is not my personal view, the resistance to requiring helmets, is that for those who can't afford much, adding an additional requirement makes biking that much harder, and there are studies that show that measurable amounts of people won't bike if they must wear a helmet.
so while I wear my helmet religiously, for a person who is just getting started (who maybe needs a helmet the most), to force them to wear a helmet can mean they don't even start riding a bike.
Mark
Michael Benno wrote:
Personally, I applaud this effort and wish PDX would step up, as a leader in the bicycle movement, and do the same. I'm not a safety natzi or anything, but I just don't see the need to not require helmets. I have three I'd be willing to donate to the cause.
----- Original Message ----
From: "jon.ragsdale@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:40:49 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver , WA
There is a story on the front page of www.kgw.com reporting that Vancouver has enacted a rule that in 30 days all cyclists will be required to wear helmets. Full story: http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_022608_news_vancouver_helmet_law_bicycle.2edad9de.html
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