Steve Brown
As long as everyone is getting a say in this I might as well go for
it. I spent a little time as a the Director of Safety for a steel
fabricator in the late 70's, just when OSHA as starting to get some
acceptance in the workplace. One of the most basic issues at the
time was wearing hard hats. The argument against it was, how is this
plastic helmut going to protect me against a steel beam falling on
me". The helmut was about visibility to other workers, being
protected against minor and survivable accidents, and about always
acting safely. Just two weeks ago I had to visit Pacific Veneer in
Aberdeen, WA. Before we conducted any business, I was given a five
minute safety talk. You do not know how good that made me feel that
this company was practicing safety first. It was not just a slogan.
Wear the damn helmut, safety has a lot more to do with an overall
approach than a single item. Last summer at geeger natz, in
Pennsylvania, I learned that I could ride a motorcycle without a
helmut but could not buy beer at a grocery store. For my money, I
would rather be protecting from the bike rather than the beer.
Steve Brown
On Feb 27, 2008, at 8:02 AM, Jay Rideout wrote:
> Hey Gary,
> Just another attempt at social engineering... dictated by our
> pocketbook. Anyway, on the other item, as unfortunate as it may
> seem, our safety/laws/engineering applications (planes, trains,
> automobiles, and bicycles) are all designed balancing safety and
> economics.
>
> The sad thing is there are people making everyday decisions about
> how we are to live our lives based on the most extreme ends of the
> bell curve (1/1,000,000) instead of following a more common sense
> approach... hmmmm, is common sense an uncommon attribute?
> Best,
> Jay
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Gary Malcolm
> To: OBRA List
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:27:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
>
> One More?
>
>
> This argument is ridiculous.
>
>
> By the same logic we should outlaw insurance (hmmm
) and while
> youre at it outlaw those cancerous rays from the sun too, for all
> the good that will do.
>
>
> I cry crocodile tears for your poor burdened wallet that so needs
> to be padded by nibbling away at any whim of liberty I might dream
> of having. Why dont I just send you money and then wrap myself in
> pillows and duct tape? Equating the control of personal behavior
> with a monetary value is a disgusting, pandering, covetous and
> apparently, all-american pastime, but is still not worthy of regard
> by free men and women.
>
>
> By my level of sarcasm you might be able to tell that I tire of
> having self elected nannies dictate my life. Havent you?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Gary Malcolm
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Robert Burney
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:57 PM
> To: 'Rick Johnson'; 'C M'
> Cc: 'OBRA List'
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver , WA
>
>
> Rick,
>
> I would agree with you IF society did not pick up the tab for those
> who survive their own decisions. We all pay higher medical
> insurance costs for those who decide to go without health
> insurance. If the rider is not killed for lack of a helmet, all
> our health insurance rates go up for the extra medical care
> required for the individual. This is true whether or not that
> rider has his own health insurance.
>
> If he/she does not have that insurance, all of us who do will pay
> even more for our own insurance.
>
> If that rider is crippled, Social Security disability insurance
> will pay, which costs society even more.
>
>
> In short, I am all in favor of self determination so long as the
> individual is not impacting others by their own decision. That is
> rarely the case.
>
>
>
> Robert Burney, JD
>
> President
>
>
> RE Burney & Associates, Inc.
>
> 8285 SW Nimbus Ave., Suite 124
>
> Beaverton, OR 97008
>
>
> Brokerage of Life Insurance, Annuities,
>
> Long Term Care and Disability Insurance.
>
>
> Office: 503-608-7813
>
> Cell: 503-502-4289
>
> EFax: 503-210-1595
>
> Email: robert@reburney.com
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:44 PM
> To: C M
> Cc: OBRA List
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver , WA
>
>
> Please speak for yourself only. I'm in favor of letting the
> individual decide how valuable their brains are. If someone doesn't
> think their gray matter is worth protecting I say let nature take
> it's course.
>
> Rick
>
> C M wrote:
>
> I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of us in OBRA land
> are strongly in favor of wearing helemts and requiring others to do
> the same. The question is how do we get the word out to the policy
> makers ?
>
> On 2/26/08, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> I don't disagree, but folks who study these things have reached
> these conclusions.
>
> as for kids and helmets, in Oregon it is 16 and under. ors 814.488,
> for those under 11 the adult gets the ticket, for those over 11,
> the kid gets the ticket.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
> Michael Benno wrote:
>
> Mark, that is a good point if the cost of a helmet was significant.
> However I would argue that point as being a barrier to owning a
> helmet.
>
>
> New helmets are very affordable (under $40) and used helmets are
> essentially free. I did a quick scan of craigslist and found
> several helmets ranging in price from Free to $20 on the first page
> alone. At what price were you thinking helmets would no longer be a
> barrier?
>
>
> Case in point: I had 4 excess helmets in my basement. These are all
> top line race helmets (Giro, Bell, Lima, Lazer) with all with
> retail prices over $90. I tried to sell them in craigslist for $10
> each. No bites! I posted them on craigslist for free, again no
> bites! I put them on my curb and was only able to get rid of one
> (I live on a bike route).
>
>
> Personally I think price is not a significant resitance to
> obtaining them. Let me remind you all that kids under 10 are
> required to have helmets for bikes, skateboards, scooters. So why
> not adults?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark J. Ginsberg markjginsberg@yahoo.com
>
>
> while it is not my personal view, the resistance to requiring
> helmets, is that for those who can't afford much, adding an
> additional requirement makes biking that much harder, and there are
> studies that show that measurable amounts of people won't bike if
> they must wear a helmet.
>
> so while I wear my helmet religiously, for a person who is just
> getting started (who maybe needs a helmet the most), to force them
> to wear a helmet can mean they don't even start riding a bike.
>
> Mark
>
> Michael Benno wrote:
>
> Personally, I applaud this effort and wish PDX would step up, as a
> leader in the bicycle movement, and do the same. I'm not a safety
> natzi or anything, but I just don't see the need to not require
> helmets. I have three I'd be willing to donate to the cause.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "jon.ragsdale@comcast.net"
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:40:49 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver , WA
>
> There is a story on the front page of www.kgw.com reporting that
> Vancouver has enacted a rule that in 30 days all cyclists will be
> required to wear helmets. Full story: http://www.kgw.com/news-
> local/stories/kgw_022608_news_vancouver_helmet_law_bicycle.
> 2edad9de.html
>
>
>
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>
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Attorney At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St .
> Portland , OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
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>
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Attorney At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
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