George de Randich
I happen to be a silly neanderthal! I believe in safety, I wish that
bach in 1957 somebodr was pushing bicycle safety! It would have saved me
quite a bit of pain and my family quite a bit of expense in replacing my
caps every few years!!
Ordinarily I want government to stay out of my pockets and my life! But
in this case if you don't wear one if you get caught you should pay!
I think even Lance Armstrong might agree!
George Y. de Randich
27 February 2008.
XXX
On Wed, February 27, 2008 10:01 am, Jack Bennett wrote:
> While I appreciate people's concerns for our liberty, I humbly submit that
> you're looking at the wrong Washington as the problem. The truly important
> liberties in this country -- freedom of speech, trial by jury, protection
> against unreasonable search and seizure ... you know the drill -- are in
> real danger these days.
>
> I think it's misguided to get all upset about your right to turn yourself
> into a bloody pulp at others' expense. Requiring you to wear a helmet as
> an intrusion on your freedom pales beside warrantless wiretapping,
> arbitrary classification of people as enemy combatants, Guantanamo Bay,
> etc. You're concerned about liberty? Direct your energy at the real
> problem.
>
> Jack
>
>
> gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote: Well, I have five broken helmets that
> seem to demonstrate a viable link. Two of them were broken into separate
> pieces when I went over the top of my bars and one had and entire side
> shaved down from sliding along the road. The other two were more "minor"
> in the they only had a crack up the side so I might have survived in some
> way with some general motor function.
>
> These arguments against brakes and helmets seem very silly, as if taking
> laws that attempt to mitigate the risks in certian activities violates
> our liberty. Sorry, but stupidity is not a fundamental right. The costs
> and benefits are balanced, and in this case the cost of requiring helmets
> and brakes seems minor compared to the potential injuries. The fact is
> that society passes laws all the time with respect to products and
> activities to protect us and it always adds some cost. Some we like and
> some we do not.
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Jess Mace"
>
>> Michael-
>> I work in the public health and epidemiology realm and this is the main
>> problem with helmet advocacy...there is NO real data concerning head
>> trauma in the ED and helmet usage...
>> this is because it is extremely unethical to establish a well powered
>> epidemiologic study as it would require slamming people's head into the
>> ground with and without helmets in a prospective
>> cohort study or double blind randomized control study at various rates
>> of speed...would you sign up to be in it?
>>
>> This fact is what opponents of helmet legislation use on a regular
>> basis, without recognizing the fact such data is impossible to collect
>> or accurately measure. all we have in anecdotal accounts and some
>> times in public health policy, that is enough to swing the tide.
>>
>> There are a few studies out there regarding decreased traumatic brain
>> injuries in children after helmet laws are enacted, but they're not
>> widely referenced due to measurement errors and biased selection
>> criteria if I remember correctly...the authors recognize that it is a
>> VERY difficult thing to measure (too many variable to enact a TBI).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jess C. Mace
>> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
>> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
>> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
>> Oregon Health & Science University
>> 503.494.5886
>>
>> >>> "Michael O'Hair" 2/26/2008 6:37 PM >>>
>> I'll add my two cents to this.
>>
>> I have seen many, many "family groups" where the kids are wearing
>> helments and one or more a dults are not. I believe this sets up an
>> image problem: helmets are for kids. I have told a couple of grown ups
>> that it's hard to be a parent when you've taken a serious hit in the
>> head.
>>
>> On the other hand, I have seen far too many people who have donned
>> their helmet and obviously equated it with some sort of magic armor that
>> allowed them to ride between traffic and parked cars at 4 MPH, blithely
>> unaware of their surroundings and the physics behind getting run down by
>> a 4000 pound car.
>>
>> It is my opinion that the term "skid lid" definitely applies to bicycle
>> helmets. They are good for minor accidents, but when the plastic hits
>> the asphalt at speed (30 MPH or more), not even a Snell Approved
>> motorcycle helmet can guarantee much beyond "..Well, it would have been
>> worse without a helmet."
>>
>> The problem is simply one of common sense: riding in traffic raises
>> the risk of wrecks, therefore wearing a helmet helps shave the odds a
>> bit. Unfortunately, legislatures do no deal in common sense. Case in
>> point, Hawaii was going to outlaw 2-piece wheels on cars until someone
>> pointed out that almost all cars came equipped with 2-piece wheels.
>>
>> Who out in OBRA-land has the actual data? How many people on bicycles
>> suffer non-superficial head injuries (defined as requiring admission to
>> a hospital) with and without helmets?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: john
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Helmets will be mandatory in Vancouver, WA
>>
>>
>> I know this is just a sliver of arguments for and against but
>> personally i think we should require helmet use for any sort of vehicle
>> because most auto accidents invol ve head injury to the occupants.
>> Plus I
>> know when i slap on a helmet and drive, I feel more secure and safe
>> (subconsciously or not) and so i drive a little more
>> reckless(subconsciously or not).
>>
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>
>
> .................................
> Jack Bennett
> bennett.jack@yahoo.com
> .................................
>
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--
George Y. de Randich
--
George Y. de Randich