Michael.Packard@CH2M.com
Funny how some topics seem to get more attention than others - and this
will be my only post on the matter as well.
A lot of good points have been raised on both sides of this issue.
I beg to differ - slightly - with Erik's comments.
I agree that letting Government play "daddy" is a bad idea and over
time, yeah, lots of trivial laws and issues arise.
A helmetless bike ride DOES, however, hurt others than him/herself.
Example - I ride without a helmet and happen to smack my head hard
enough to be put into the hospital (possibly in a coma, incapacitated or
other state). My spouse now suffers emotionally, maybe financially. My
children have to potentially live with a vegetative state parent for the
rest of their lives. My siblings & parents might have to now take care
of me as I can no longer do that.
What about the time Doctors and Nurses now have to put in to take care
of my actions instead of taking care of someone that really NEEDS their
help? Maybe someone dies because the Doctor is treating me and not them?
How about my employer? Maybe they just lost a valuable employee? Maybe
my client just lost the rightful custody of a child because I was
permanently incapacitated (sorry Mark).
You can certainly come up with more scenarios / "what ifs".
Please! Don't get yourself wrong or sell yourself short..... Your
actions will ALWAYS impact others.
Stand-up, take responsibility for your actions and stop whining. Half
the reason we have some of these crazy laws on the books is because
people don't / won't want to take responsibility for what they do.
Michael
________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Long
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 4:51 PM
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Evangelistic Helmet Nazi's?
Additional safety equipment vs. integrated safety equipment is not a
particularly valid comparison. And choosing not to wear a seatbelt can
in fact injure others, as a 200 lb human flying through the air at 60mph
is basically just a slow-moving missile. A helmetless bike rider won't
hurt anyone but himself, and even then, that's IF he manages to hit his
head.
Again, the decisions of other people that have no effect on us, are
really none our friggin' business. If someone else wants to be on a
poor diet, it's none of my business. If someone else wants to smoke
cigarettes, that' their business, not mine. If someone else wants to
binge drink, that 's also none of my damn business - so long as they
don't get behind the wheel and put other people at risk.
Ultimately, letting our government play "Daddy" can only lead to more
inane laws over trivial issues. In a free society, we need to be
allowed to make our own decisions when it comes to things that only
effect ourselves. You take away personal choice, you take a way
inaliable human rights. It's an obvious step in a very bad direction.
________________________________
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Evangelistic Helmet Nazi's?
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:56:04 +0000
I doubt that is a valid reason to worry and is an extreme
overstatement. They also require seat belts and all new cars must have
airbags for use of the roads. They also require life vests for people
in boats.
Since it is hard to argue that a hlemet does work, it seems a
bit silly for us to argue that the government should not mandate their
use if it so chooses.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erik Long
It is my opinion, my belief, that everyone on a bike is
safer while wearing a helmet. I have broken at least 3 of my own
helmets and have had friends who sustained brain damage from bicycle
accidents without helmets. I really believe that everyone should wear a
helmet.
That does not give me - or any one of us - the right to
push our beliefs on other people. Listen to yourselves, people! You
sound like religious zealots who believe that their way is the only way.
It does not matter to other people what we believe! Whether it's true
or not, you don't get to make decisions for everyone else! It's just
wrong (and a little Fascist).
Laws like this one just give those in government a
future foothold to control us further. How many of the cyclists killed
in Portland over the past year were riding without helmets? Any of them
actually die from head trauma for which they were at fault?
They all had one thing in commo n: riding on public
roads.
If we let laws like Vancouver's new helmet law become
commonplace, local government in the not-too-distant future could
realistically also outlaw cycling on public roads under the guise of
"safety". That is, if we let paranoia and personal belief govern over
liberty and common sense.
________________________________
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:58:41 -0800
From: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
To: harry-phinney@comcast.net;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] More helmet war blah,
blah
interesting that for motorcycles, helmet-less
states actually have lower head injury rates too.
to be honest though, once above a certain speed,
it really doesn't matter if you have a helmet or not, except clean-up is
easier. or you just slide and don't hit your head...
But without a helmet, on a motorcycle, believe
me, you don't drive fast and you are really really careful.
The only time i have ever hit my head in a
bicycle crash, is when involved with other cyclists, thus i wear a
helmet when riding with others.
But i would get really pissed if I was required
to put on a helmet to go get groceries. Skill, proficient, and careful
riding are 20 times more important then strapping on a helmet (group
ride of course you can't control others carefullness..) Go out and do
your tumbling drills. err or ride cyclocross.
To increase cyc ling, it MUST be convenient, as
convenient as getting into a car and driving off. My bike is outside
and is ready to ride, I can literally be out the door down the street in
10 seconds. This is actually, in my opinion, the number one thing
preventing more people from commutting to work or just riding in
general. Some days my light training or sprint intervals are done, in
regular clothes, I just don't feel like spending 10 minutes changing for
30 minute ride...
Or we should make driving as inconvenient.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander! I was being highly
sarcastic in a previous email, but it would be so funny to see everyone
driving around with helmets on. Yeah and Imagine the environmental
impact of all that Foam and plastic !!
----- Original Message ----
From: Harry Phinney
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:00:06 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] More helmet war blah, blah
> I work in the public health and epidemiology
realm and this is the main
> problem with helmet advocacy...there is NO
real data concerning head
> trauma in the ED and helmet usage...
There have most certainly been studies. As an
example there were surveys
done in Australia prior to and 1 and 2 years
after the imposition of laws
mandating bicycle helmet usage. While the total
number of cyclists with head
injuries decreased, this decrease was _less_
than the decrease in the number
of miles/km cycled. In other words head injury
_rates_ went up, not down.
Helmet laws have repeatedly been shown to reduce
the number of cyclists,
which is not IMO a good t hing. If you are
interested in studies regarding
the efficacy of bicycle helmets, here is a
rather old list:
Williams M
The protective performance of bicyclists'
helmets in accidents.
In: Accid Anal Prev (1991 Apr-Jun)
23(2-3):119-31
ACCIDENT ANALYSIS AND PREVENTION
Dorsch MM Woodward AJ Somers RL
Do bicycle safety helmets reduce severity of
head injury in real
crashes?
In: Accid Anal Prev (1987 Jun) 19(3):183-90
ACCIDENT ANALYSIS AND PREVENTION
Thompson DC Thompson RS Rivara FP Wolf ME
A case-control study of the effectiveness of
bicycle safety helmets
in preventing facial injury.
In: Am J Public Health (1990 Dec) 80(12):1471-4
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH
Wasserman RC Waller JA Monty MJ Emery AB
Robinson DR
Bicyclists, helmets and head injuries: a
rider-based study of helmet
use and effectiv eness.
In: Am J Public Health (1988 Sep) 78(9):1220-1
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH
Ginsberg GM Silverberg DS
A cost-benefit analysis of legislation for
bicycle safety helmets in
Israel.
In: Am J Public Health (1994 Apr) 84(4):653-6
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH
Wasserman RC Buccini RV
Helmet protection from head injuries among
recreational bicyclists.
In: Am J Sports Med (1990 Jan-Feb) 18(1):96-7
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF SPORTS MEDICINE
Maimaris C Summers CL Browning C Palmer CR
Injury patterns in cyclists attending an
accident and emergency
department: a comparison of helmet wearers and
non-wearers [see
comments]
In: BMJ (1994 Jun 11) 308(6943):1537-40
BMJ
Maimaris C Summers CL Browning C Palmer CR
Injury patterns in cyclists attending an
accident and emergency
department: a comparison of helmet wearers and
non-wearers [see
comments]
In: BMJ (1994 Jun 11) 308(6943):1537-40
BMJ
Thomas S Acton C Nixon J Battistutta D Pitt
WR Clark R
Effectiveness of bicycle helmets in preventing
head injury in
children: case-control study [see comments]
In: BMJ (1994 Jan 15) 308(6922):173-6
BMJ
Waters EA
Should pedal cyclists wear helmets? A comparison
of head injuries
sustained by pedal cyclists and motorcyclists
in road traffic
accidents.
In: Injury (1986 Nov) 17(6):372-5
INJURY
Spaite DW Murphy M Criss EA Valenzuela TD
Meislin HW
A prospective analysis of injury severity among
helmeted and
nonhelmeted bicyclists involved in collisions
with motor vehicles.
In: J Trauma (1991 Nov) 31(11):1510-6
JOURNAL OF TRAUMA
McDermott FT Lane JC Braze nor GA Debney EA
The effectiveness of bicyclist helmets: a study
of 1710 casualties
[see comments]
In: J Trauma (1993 Jun) 34(6):834-44; discussion
844-5
JOURNAL OF TRAUMA
Bjornstig U Ostrom M Eriksson A
Sonntag-Ostrom E
Head and face injuries in bicyclists--with
special reference to
possible effects of helmet use.
In: J Trauma (1992 Dec) 33(6):887-93
JOURNAL OF TRAUMA
Thompson RS Rivara FP Thompson DC
A case-control study of the effectiveness of
bicycle safety helmets
[see comments]
In: N Engl J Med (1989 May 25) 320(21):1361-7
NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE
Rivara FP Thompson DC Thompson RS Rogers LW
Alexander B Felix D
Bergman AB
The Seattle children's bicycle helmet campaign:
changes in helmet use
and head injury admissions.
In: Pediatrics (1994 Apr) 93(4):567-9
&nb sp; PEDIATRICS
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--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Evangelistic Helmet Nazi's?
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:09:53 +0000
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