Mike Murray
A few years ago someone I know did a non-scientific study by watching the
kilo starts at Masters Natz and noting which pedals were used by people that
had pedal release. Kilo starts are the most likely place to see pedal
release. He noted that Speedplay pedals released less than all others,
including toe clips and straps. This was before the Zero came to market.
I am using the Speedplay X. I have had 2 releases on the track. One
happened when the cleat spring broke. The other happed when I was bumped up
track and the other side foot came out in the evasive maneuver. Neither
incident resulted in a fall. I have had releases while riding on the road
rarely, generally while stopping riding fixed. This has occurred only when
using extremely worn pedals and/or cleats in the rain. I have never fallen
due to a pedal release but I have sure seen a lot of people who have.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: NW Cyclist [mailto:nwcyclist39@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 09:18 AM
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are you using
for a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you and what
has NOT worked ?
JD
On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination that NEVER
comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by
inadvertent detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and
straps). I have never seen an injury directly because of a failure of the
pedal to release in a fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or
other clip in mechanism AND straps on top of that. Some people have
actually bolted the shoes to the pedals, although this is really only
practical for top level timed events and sprints.
2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs to be
dabbed. They should be avoided at the track.
3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is OK for
training classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule
against it but I think it should be avoided.
4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less about
strength a softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to be
stiffer than road shoes.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of john
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
Robert,
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match
sprinters are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip
versus clipless with them.
However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and
probably preferred since they release without a struggle or without having
to reach down and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers
that race omnium events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals and
thus same shoes as on their road bike.
If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with clipless pedals
then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer more free
rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have ever used
were TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals, LOOK too
now..), large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large angle so
never accidentally released. . My issue with them though is undefined and
small pedal to shoe interface.
If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat, since
there is no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly,
preferably professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But even
then, In the old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably saved
knees. if i recall correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups stiffened, knee
injuries increased. Depends on what sort of rotation you foot likes to do
through a rotation. I had no issues when i first started on toe and clip
pedals and a cleated slot shoe. But if i tried to go back now, i for sure
would have issues...
If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip Pedals, it
is rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track racing is
more about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe stiffness is
not as critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove with
grinding wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into
the clip pedal. Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could maybe
even find a stiff insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a fibrous
insole... work in some fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff. .
2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a platform
pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a thin plate
pedal as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of your foot
and you want a nice flat surface to do this on..
Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a little
further and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the
Alpenrose banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the
races are short , the pain is short if for example the strap is digging into
your foot.
Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a nice
collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there are still
purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike central ..
Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three hole Look
Style. Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when
worn. I use to use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes
for commuting) But seemed to have issue with accidental release here and
there.. and then once they didn't release until after my leg snapped. So
not a fan anymore of Steel on Steel pedal to cleat.
My Stretchy Pants wrote:
I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats, and have
a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I stick in
the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the cleats? I
tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for a few
weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers were the
wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important religious
matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a purpose
built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
Robert Synak
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john m schmidt, pe
portland oregon
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