johnfforbes@comcast.net

Style points, Steve, style points. Now just don't wear any other kind of thong...

--
John Forbes
3641 SW 52nd Place,
Portland, OR 97221
503-422-1239

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: steve garcia
> So, my Shimano SPD Thongs are a no-go for the track? The Ebay listing said they
> were NJS though.
>
> Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Murray
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:31:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>
>
> That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
> http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
>
> Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of difficulty getting
> them off riders who are on the deck.
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
> Of Steve Brown
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
> To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>
>
> MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock you in. You
> have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same system as Donna but
> prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to get.
>
>
> On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
>
>
> I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with clipless pedals
> (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals with straps,
> scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As long as I make sure that
> I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps tight, I'm good to go. I
> wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system if my life depended on
> it...oh wait, it does.
> Donna Smith
>
>
> So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are you using for
> a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you and what has NOT
> worked ?
>
>
> JD
>
>
> On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
> I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
>
>
> 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination that NEVER
> comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by inadvertent
> detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and straps). I have
> never seen an injury directly because of a failure of the pedal to release in a
> fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or other clip in mechanism AND
> straps on top of that. Some people have actually bolted the shoes to the
> pedals, although this is really only practical for top level timed events and
> sprints.
>
>
> 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs to be dabbed.
> They should be avoided at the track.
>
>
> 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is OK for training
> classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule against it but I
> think it should be avoided.
>
>
> 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less about strength a
> softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to be stiffer than
> road shoes.
>
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
> Of john
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
> To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> Robert,
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
> A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
>
> Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match sprinters
> are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip versus clipless
> with them.
>
> However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and probably
> preferred since they release without a struggle or without having to reach down
> and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers that race omnium
> events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals and thus same shoes as on
> their road bike.
>
> If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with clipless pedals
> then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer more free
> rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have ever used were
> TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals, LOOK too now..),
> large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large angle so never
> accidentally released. . My issue with them though is undefined and small
> pedal to shoe interface.
>
> If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat, since there is
> no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly, preferably
> professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But even then, In the
> old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably saved knees. if i recall
> correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups stiffened, knee injuries increased.
> Depends on what sort of rotation you foot likes to do through a rotation. I had
> no issues when i first started on toe and clip pedals and a cleated slot shoe.
> But if i tried to go back now, i for sure would have issues...
>
> If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip Pedals, it is
> rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track racing is more
> about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe stiffness is not as
> critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
>
> 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove with grinding
> wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into the clip pedal.
> Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could maybe even find a stiff
> insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a fibrous insole... work in some
> fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff. .
>
> 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a platform
> pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a thin plate pedal
> as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of your foot and you
> want a nice flat surface to do this on..
>
> Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a little further
> and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the Alpenrose
> banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the races are short ,
> the pain is short if for example the strap is digging into your foot.
>
> Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a nice
> collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there are still
> purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike central ..
> Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three hole Look Style.
> Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when worn. I use to
> use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes for commuting) But
> seemed to have issue with accidental release here and there.. and then once they
> didn't release until after my leg snapped. So not a fan anymore of Steel on
> Steel pedal to cleat.
>
>
>
> My Stretchy Pants wrote:
> I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats, and have
> a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I stick in
> the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the cleats? I
> tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for a few
> weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers were the
> wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important religious
> matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a purpose
> built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
>
> Robert Synak
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>
> john m schmidt, pe
> portland oregon
>
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