G Magnus

Sounds like everyone needs a track monkey, forget the trunk monkey get a track monkey, hold you, help un-clip you, carry your bike to and fro...feed you banana's (if they don't eat em all).....oh yeah and I run the SPD-r's on the track...tighten up so much that most of the time you gotta wack the side of your heel to un-clip love em.

~Gregg

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:31:54 -0700From: sehsrugby@yahoo.comTo: obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at AlpenroseThose are what I'm running now days. Most secure feel I've ever had to a bike. I was using SPD-Rs, and Looks before that. The SPDs had too small of a platform for me, but has been proven by most world class sprinters, they will hold you in. I wouldnt recommend Looks to anyone in a sprint. I had more pull outs with those than I care to remember. Granted, it was the low end Keo style, but still.Mike Murray wrote:

That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm

Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of difficulty getting them off riders who are on the deck.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Steve BrownSent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PMTo: bikingmom@centurytel.netCc: obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at AlpenroseMKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock you in. You have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same system as Donna but prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to get.

On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:

I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with clipless pedals (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals with straps, scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As long as I make sure that I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps tight, I'm good to go. I wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system if my life depended on it...oh wait, it does.
Donna Smith

So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are you using for a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you and what has NOT worked ?

JD

On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:

I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:

1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination that NEVER comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by inadvertent detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and straps). I have never seen an injury directly because of a failure of the pedal to release in a fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or other clip in mechanism AND straps on top of that. Some people have actually bolted the shoes to the pedals, although this is really only practical for top level timed events and sprints.

2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs to be dabbed. They should be avoided at the track.

3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is OK for training classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule against it but I think it should be avoided.

4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less about strength a softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to be stiffer than road shoes.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of johnSent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PMTo: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
Robert,http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.htmlA cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals. Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match sprinters are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip versus clipless with them. However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and probably preferred since they release without a struggle or without having to reach down and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers that race omnium events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals and thus same shoes as on their road bike. If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with clipless pedals then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer more free rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have ever used were TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals, LOOK too now..), large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large angle so never accidentally released. . My issue with them though is undefined and small pedal to shoe interface.If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat, since there is no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly, preferably professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But even then, In the old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably saved knees. if i recall correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups stiffened, knee injuries increased. Depends on what sort of rotation you foot likes to do through a rotation. I had no issues when i first started on toe and clip pedals and a cleated slot shoe. But if i tried to go back now, i for sure would have issues...If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip Pedals, it is rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track racing is more about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe stiffness is not as critical as in other types of bicycle racing. 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove with grinding wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into the clip pedal. Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could maybe even find a stiff insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a fibrous insole... work in some fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff. . 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a platform pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a thin plate pedal as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of your foot and you want a nice flat surface to do this on.. Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a little further and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the Alpenrose banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the races are short , the pain is short if for example the strap is digging into your foot. Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a nice collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there are still purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike central .. Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three hole Look Style. Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when worn. I use to use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes for commuting) But seemed to have issue with accidental release here and there.. and then once they didn't release until after my leg snapped. So not a fan anymore of Steel on Steel pedal to cleat. My Stretchy Pants wrote:
I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats, and havea set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I stick inthe clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the cleats? Itried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for a fewweeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers were thewrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important religiousmatter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a purposebuilt shoe experienced track racers use with clips?Robert Synak_______________________________________________OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
john m schmidt, peportland oregon
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