David Oliphant

I use Look cleats (black) and my standard road shoes on the track. There are
only a few match sprinters in Oregon that use the toe straps that I've
seen...and I would not recommend for the track generalist. Its my belief
that if you're doing mass start events, and you've been professionally
fitted on your bike/cleat fit with no float pedals that your fine on the
track. I've never clicked out in training or racing in 10++ (ouch) years.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Ford"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose

> What about the retro system, with those cleats you can get (Yoshida makes
> them, as does MKS) that attach to Look-compatible shoes, to allow you to
> "clip" into standard road or track "cage" pedals, like older Campy or MKS
> pedals? I don't know how secure that attachment is, or how you unclip
> (twist
> to the side?), but the advantage would be that it's easily supplemented
> with
> single or double straps, as that's what those pedals are intended for.
>
> If it works, it would be very cost-effective, because those cleats are
> only
> $20/30, they work with normal road shoes, and cage pedals can be very
> cheap.
> Or is that what Donna was talking about below, with her "old-school
> Dura-Ace
> sprint pedals with straps"?
>
> Mike
>
>> Message: 26
>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:31:47 -0700
>> From: "Mike Murray"
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>> To:
>> Message-ID: <000001c89e98$78f3f290$9801a8c0@MikeLT>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
>> http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
>>
>> Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of difficulty
>> getting them off riders who are on the deck.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Brown
>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
>> To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>
>>
>> MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock you in.
>> You
>> have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same system as
>> Donna
>> but prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to get.
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with clipless
>> pedals
>> (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals with
>> straps, scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As long as I
>> make sure that I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps tight,
>> I'm
>> good to go. I wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system if my
>> life
>> depended on it...oh wait, it does.
>>
>> Donna Smith
>>
>>
>> So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are you
>> using
>> for a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you and what
>> has NOT worked ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JD
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination that
>> NEVER
>> comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by
>> inadvertent detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and
>> straps). I have never seen an injury directly because of a failure of
>> the
>> pedal to release in a fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or
>> other clip in mechanism AND straps on top of that. Some people have
>> actually bolted the shoes to the pedals, although this is really only
>> practical for top level timed events and sprints.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs to be
>> dabbed. They should be avoided at the track.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is OK for
>> training classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule
>> against it but I think it should be avoided.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less about
>> strength a softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to
>> be
>> stiffer than road shoes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of john
>> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
>> To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
>> A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
>>
>> Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match
>> sprinters are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip
>> versus clipless with them.
>>
>> However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and
>> probably preferred since they release without a struggle or without
>> having
>> to reach down and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers
>> that race omnium events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals
>> and
>> thus same shoes as on their road bike.
>>
>> If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with clipless
>> pedals
>> then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer more
>> free
>> rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have ever used
>> were TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals, LOOK too
>> now..), large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large angle so
>> never accidentally released. . My issue with them though is undefined
>> and
>> small pedal to shoe interface.
>>
>> If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat, since
>> there is no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly,
>> preferably professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But
>> even
>> then, In the old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably saved
>> knees. if i recall correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups stiffened,
>> knee
>> injuries increased. Depends on what sort of rotation you foot likes to
>> do
>> through a rotation. I had no issues when i first started on toe and clip
>> pedals and a cleated slot shoe. But if i tried to go back now, i for
>> sure
>> would have issues...
>>
>> If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip Pedals,
>> it
>> is rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track racing is
>> more about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe stiffness
>> is
>> not as critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
>>
>> 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove with
>> grinding wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into
>> the clip pedal. Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could
>> maybe
>> even find a stiff insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a
>> fibrous
>> insole... work in some fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff. .
>>
>> 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a
>> platform
>> pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a thin plate
>> pedal as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of your
>> foot
>> and you want a nice flat surface to do this on..
>>
>> Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a little
>> further and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the
>> Alpenrose banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the
>> races are short , the pain is short if for example the strap is digging
>> into
>> your foot.
>>
>> Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a nice
>> collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there are still
>> purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike central ..
>> Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three hole Look
>> Style. Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when
>> worn. I use to use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes
>> for commuting) But seemed to have issue with accidental release here and
>> there.. and then once they didn't release until after my leg snapped.
>> So
>> not a fan anymore of Steel on Steel pedal to cleat.
>>
>>
>>
>> My Stretchy Pants wrote:
>>
>> I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats, and have
>> a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I stick in
>> the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the cleats? I
>> tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for a few
>> weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers were the
>> wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important religious
>> matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a purpose
>> built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
>>
>> Robert Synak
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> john m schmidt, pe
>> portland oregon
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 27
>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: steve garcia
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Message-ID: <496182.40427.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> So, my Shimano SPD Thongs are a no-go for the track? The Ebay listing
>> said they were NJS though.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Mike Murray
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:31:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>
>>
>> That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
>> http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
>>
>> Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of difficulty
>> getting them off riders who are on the deck.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Brown
>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
>> To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>
>>
>> MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock you in.
>> You have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same system as
>> Donna but prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to
>> get.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with clipless
>> pedals
>> (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals with
>> straps, scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As long as I
>> make sure that I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps tight,
>> I'm
>> good to go. I wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system if my
>> life depended on it...oh wait, it does.
>> Donna Smith
>>
>>
>> So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are you
>> using for a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you
>> and
>> what has NOT worked ?
>>
>>
>> JD
>>
>>
>> On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
>> I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
>>
>>
>> 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination that
>> NEVER comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by
>> inadvertent detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and
>> straps). I have never seen an injury directly because of a failure of
>> the
>> pedal to release in a fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or
>> other clip in mechanism AND straps on top of that. Some people have
>> actually bolted the shoes to the pedals, although this is really only
>> practical for top level timed events and sprints.
>>
>>
>> 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs to be
>> dabbed. They should be avoided at the track.
>>
>>
>> 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is OK for
>> training classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule
>> against it but I think it should be avoided.
>>
>>
>> 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less about
>> strength a softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to
>> be stiffer than road shoes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of john
>> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
>> To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>> Robert,
>>
>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
>> A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
>>
>> Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match
>> sprinters are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip
>> versus clipless with them.
>>
>> However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and
>> probably preferred since they release without a struggle or without
>> having
>> to reach down and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers
>> that race omnium events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals
>> and thus same shoes as on their road bike.
>>
>> If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with clipless
>> pedals then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer
>> more free rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have
>> ever used were TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals,
>> LOOK too now..), large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large
>> angle so never accidentally released. . My issue with them though is
>> undefined and small pedal to shoe interface.
>>
>> If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat, since
>> there is no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly,
>> preferably professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But
>> even then, In the old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably
>> saved knees. if i recall correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups
>> stiffened, knee injuries increased. Depends on what sort of rotation you
>> foot likes to do through a rotation. I had no issues when i first
>> started
>> on toe and clip pedals and a cleated slot shoe. But if i tried to go
>> back
>> now, i for sure would have issues...
>>
>> If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip Pedals,
>> it is rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track racing
>> is more about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe
>> stiffness
>> is not as critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
>>
>> 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove with
>> grinding wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into
>> the clip pedal. Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could
>> maybe even find a stiff insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a
>> fibrous insole... work in some fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff.
>> .
>>
>> 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a
>> platform pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a
>> thin plate pedal as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball
>> of your foot and you want a nice flat surface to do this on..
>>
>> Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a little
>> further and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the
>> Alpenrose banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the
>> races are short , the pain is short if for example the strap is digging
>> into your foot.
>>
>> Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a nice
>> collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there are still
>> purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike central ..
>> Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three hole Look
>> Style. Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when
>> worn. I use to use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes
>> for commuting) But seemed to have issue with accidental release here and
>> there.. and then once they didn't release until after my leg snapped.
>> So
>> not a fan anymore of Steel on Steel pedal to cleat.
>>
>>
>>
>> My Stretchy Pants wrote:
>> I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats, and have
>> a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I stick in
>> the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the cleats? I
>> tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for a few
>> weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers were the
>> wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important religious
>> matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a purpose
>> built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
>>
>> Robert Synak
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> john m schmidt, pe
>> portland oregon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 28
>> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:47:10 +0000
>> From: johnfforbes@comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>> To: steve garcia , obra@list.obra.org
>> Message-ID:
>> <041520080147.3126.4804091E00049BB800000C3622147564029C0A0D9D01000002080106@comcast.net>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Style points, Steve, style points. Now just don't wear any other kind of
>> thong...
>>
>> --
>> John Forbes
>> 3641 SW 52nd Place,
>> Portland, OR 97221
>> 503-422-1239
>>
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>> From: steve garcia
>>> So, my Shimano SPD Thongs are a no-go for the track? The Ebay listing
>>> said they
>>> were NJS though.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Mike Murray
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:31:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>>
>>>
>>> That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
>>>
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
>>> http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
>>>
>>> Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of difficulty
>>> getting
>>> them off riders who are on the deck.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Steve Brown
>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
>>> To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
>>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>>
>>>
>>> MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock you in.
>>> You
>>> have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same system as
>>> Donna but
>>> prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to get.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with clipless
>>> pedals
>>> (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals with
>>> straps,
>>> scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As long as I make
>>> sure that
>>> I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps tight, I'm good to go.
>>> I
>>> wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system if my life depended
>>> on
>>> it...oh wait, it does.
>>> Donna Smith
>>>
>>>
>>> So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are you
>>> using for
>>> a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you and what
>>> has
>>> NOT
>>> worked ?
>>>
>>>
>>> JD
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
>>> I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination that
>>> NEVER
>>> comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by
>>> inadvertent
>>> detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and straps). I
>>> have
>>> never seen an injury directly because of a failure of the pedal to
>>> release in a
>>> fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or other clip in
>>> mechanism
>>> AND
>>> straps on top of that. Some people have actually bolted the shoes to
>>> the
>>> pedals, although this is really only practical for top level timed
>>> events
>>> and
>>> sprints.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs to be
>>> dabbed.
>>> They should be avoided at the track.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is OK for
>>> training
>>> classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule against it
>>> but I
>>> think it should be avoided.
>>>
>>>
>>> 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less about
>>> strength a
>>> softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to be stiffer
>>> than
>>> road shoes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of john
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
>>> To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
>>> A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
>>>
>>> Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match
>>> sprinters
>>> are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip versus
>>> clipless
>>> with them.
>>>
>>> However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and
>>> probably
>>> preferred since they release without a struggle or without having to
>>> reach down
>>> and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers that race
>>> omnium
>>> events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals and thus same
>>> shoes as on
>>> their road bike.
>>>
>>> If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with clipless
>>> pedals
>>> then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer more
>>> free
>>> rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have ever used
>>> were
>>> TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals, LOOK too
>>> now..),
>>> large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large angle so never
>>> accidentally released. . My issue with them though is undefined and
>>> small
>>> pedal to shoe interface.
>>>
>>> If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat, since
>>> there is
>>> no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly,
>>> preferably
>>> professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But even then,
>>> In the
>>> old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably saved knees. if i
>>> recall
>>> correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups stiffened, knee injuries
>>> increased.
>>> Depends on what sort of rotation you foot likes to do through a
>>> rotation.
>>> I had
>>> no issues when i first started on toe and clip pedals and a cleated slot
>>> shoe.
>>> But if i tried to go back now, i for sure would have issues...
>>>
>>> If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip Pedals,
>>> it is
>>> rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track racing is
>>> more
>>> about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe stiffness is
>>> not
>>> as
>>> critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
>>>
>>> 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove with
>>> grinding
>>> wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into the
>>> clip
>>> pedal.
>>> Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could maybe even find a
>>> stiff
>>> insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a fibrous insole... work
>>> in some
>>> fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff. .
>>>
>>> 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a
>>> platform
>>> pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a thin
>>> plate
>>> pedal
>>> as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of your foot
>>> and
>>> you
>>> want a nice flat surface to do this on..
>>>
>>> Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a little
>>> further
>>> and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the
>>> Alpenrose
>>> banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the races are
>>> short ,
>>> the pain is short if for example the strap is digging into your foot.
>>>
>>> Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a nice
>>> collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there are
>>> still
>>> purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike central ..
>>> Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three hole
>>> Look
>>> Style.
>>> Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when worn.
>>> I
>>> use to
>>> use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes for commuting)
>>> But
>>> seemed to have issue with accidental release here and there.. and then
>>> once they
>>> didn't release until after my leg snapped. So not a fan anymore of
>>> Steel on
>>> Steel pedal to cleat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Stretchy Pants wrote:
>>> I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats, and have
>>> a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I stick in
>>> the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the cleats? I
>>> tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for a few
>>> weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers were the
>>> wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important religious
>>> matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a purpose
>>> built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
>>>
>>> Robert Synak
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> john m schmidt, pe
>>> portland oregon
>>>
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>>>
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>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An embedded message was scrubbed...
>> From: steve garcia
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
>> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:42:59 +0000
>> Size: 22317
>> Url:
>> http://list.obra.org/posts/obra/attachments/20080414/22b60811/attachment.eml
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>> End of OBRA Digest, Vol 28, Issue 17
>> ************************************
>>
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