Steve Brown
In my opinion this is the best thread OBRA has ever had. It does not
get any better than getting to discuss and share about what type of
pedals to use for sprinting. My wife is not interested, my kids
could care less and people at work just shake their heads or roll
their eyes. The only other time you get to have this type of exchange
is the 15 minute rest between those hard 30 second efforts at the
track. Does anyone want to talk about Keirin grips vs tape?
Steve Brown
On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Darell C. Provencher wrote:
> OK I'll join in. I've raced track at Alpenrose for 27 consecutive
> years. My first shoes were Vittorias with wood outsoles. Carl
> Leusencamp helped me nail in my first standard cleats to fit my
> Gipiemme track pedals. Never came out of those, but the shoes
> hurt. Over the years I've used track pedals (Campy and Gipiemme)
> and clipless. With the track pedals I've used 1 strap, 2 straps
> (Alfredo Binda were the best), and I've tightened them by hand,
> pliers (and even used Brian Abers with pliers -- ouch), and vice
> grips. I went clipless about 8 years ago. I've used Look, Time, and
> Shimano. Worst setup for me was back in 1997 when I had a pair of
> Diadoras with yellow "standard" track cleats with Campy track
> pedals. I probably pulled out of those at least six times that
> year in kilo or pursuit starts, including my kilo start at Masters
> Natz (cost me a definite 3rd place). I found the cleat slot to be
> about a half millimeter too wide, plus they wore down too fast. My
> favorite combination are the old style Shimano Dura Ace pedals,
> cranked all the way down, with SH70 fixed (no rotation) cleats.
> I've never pulled out with that combination. I did however pull
> out a few times in previous years when I had the SH71 rotational
> cleats attached. Since the USCF took away a second chance to start
> the kilo (or 500m), we've also learned how to have a "mishap"
> within 10 meters of the start and fall down, so we can start again.
> Crazy.
>
> I agree with everything that Mike Murray Steve Brown had to say,
> Also, sprinting at full speed on a 42 degree bank in a fixed gear
> is very different that sprinting on flat earth. Crazy things can
> happen in that situation, so the more secure the better.
>
> Darell
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Michael Ford
> wrote:
> What about the retro system, with those cleats you can get (Yoshida
> makes
> them, as does MKS) that attach to Look-compatible shoes, to allow
> you to
> "clip" into standard road or track "cage" pedals, like older Campy
> or MKS
> pedals? I don't know how secure that attachment is, or how you
> unclip (twist
> to the side?), but the advantage would be that it's easily
> supplemented with
> single or double straps, as that's what those pedals are intended for.
>
> If it works, it would be very cost-effective, because those cleats
> are only
> $20/30, they work with normal road shoes, and cage pedals can be
> very cheap.
> Or is that what Donna was talking about below, with her "old-school
> Dura-Ace
> sprint pedals with straps"?
>
> Mike
>
> > Message: 26
> > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:31:47 -0700
> > From: "Mike Murray"
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> > To:
> > Message-ID: <000001c89e98$78f3f290$9801a8c0@MikeLT>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
> >
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
> > http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
> >
> > Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of
> difficulty
> > getting them off riders who are on the deck.
> >
> > Mike Murray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Steve Brown
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
> > To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
> > Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >
> >
> > MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock
> you in.
> > You
> > have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same system
> as Donna
> > but prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to
> get.
> >
> > On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with
> clipless pedals
> > (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals
> with
> > straps, scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As
> long as I
> > make sure that I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps
> tight, I'm
> > good to go. I wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system
> if my
> > life
> > depended on it...oh wait, it does.
> >
> > Donna Smith
> >
> >
> > So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are
> you
> > using
> > for a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you
> and what
> > has NOT worked ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > JD
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
> >
> > I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination
> that
> > NEVER
> > comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by
> > inadvertent detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with
> clips and
> > straps). I have never seen an injury directly because of a
> failure of the
> > pedal to release in a fall. Some riders use pedals that have an
> SPD or
> > other clip in mechanism AND straps on top of that. Some people have
> > actually bolted the shoes to the pedals, although this is really
> only
> > practical for top level timed events and sprints.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs
> to be
> > dabbed. They should be avoided at the track.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is
> OK for
> > training classes but should not be used for racing. There is no
> rule
> > against it but I think it should be avoided.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less
> about
> > strength a softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes
> tend to
> > be
> > stiffer than road shoes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Murray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of john
> > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
> > To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
> > A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
> >
> > Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match
> > sprinters are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate
> clip
> > versus clipless with them.
> >
> > However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and
> > probably preferred since they release without a struggle or
> without having
> > to reach down and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track
> racers
> > that race omnium events including the pros use the same Clipless
> pedals
> > and
> > thus same shoes as on their road bike.
> >
> > If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with
> clipless
> > pedals
> > then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that offer
> more
> > free
> > rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have
> ever used
> > were TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals,
> LOOK too
> > now..), large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large
> angle so
> > never accidentally released. . My issue with them though is
> undefined and
> > small pedal to shoe interface.
> >
> > If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat,
> since
> > there is no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned
> properly,
> > preferably professionally or you will most likely hurt your
> knees. But
> > even
> > then, In the old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so
> probably saved
> > knees. if i recall correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups
> stiffened, knee
> > injuries increased. Depends on what sort of rotation you foot
> likes to do
> > through a rotation. I had no issues when i first started on toe
> and clip
> > pedals and a cleated slot shoe. But if i tried to go back now, i
> for sure
> > would have issues...
> >
> > If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip
> Pedals,
> > it
> > is rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track
> racing is
> > more about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe
> stiffness is
> > not as critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
> >
> > 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove
> with
> > grinding wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily
> goes into
> > the clip pedal. Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you
> could
> > maybe
> > even find a stiff insole.. Err or you can do like did once with
> a fibrous
> > insole... work in some fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly
> stiff. .
> >
> > 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a
> > platform
> > pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a
> thin plate
> > pedal as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of
> your
> > foot
> > and you want a nice flat surface to do this on..
> >
> > Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a
> little
> > further and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of
> clipping the
> > Alpenrose banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also
> since the
> > races are short , the pain is short if for example the strap is
> digging
> > into
> > your foot.
> >
> > Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a
> nice
> > collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there
> are still
> > purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike
> central ..
> > Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three
> hole Look
> > Style. Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the
> cleat when
> > worn. I use to use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like
> walkable shoes
> > for commuting) But seemed to have issue with accidental release
> here and
> > there.. and then once they didn't release until after my leg
> snapped. So
> > not a fan anymore of Steel on Steel pedal to cleat.
> >
> >
> >
> > My Stretchy Pants wrote:
> >
> > I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats,
> and have
> > a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I
> stick in
> > the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the
> cleats? I
> > tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for
> a few
> > weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers
> were the
> > wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important
> religious
> > matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a
> purpose
> > built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
> >
> > Robert Synak
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > john m schmidt, pe
> > portland oregon
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 27
> > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: steve garcia
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Message-ID: <496182.40427.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > So, my Shimano SPD Thongs are a no-go for the track? The Ebay
> listing
> > said they were NJS though.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mike Murray
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:31:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >
> >
> > That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
> >
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
> > http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
> >
> > Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of
> difficulty
> > getting them off riders who are on the deck.
> >
> > Mike Murray
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Steve Brown
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
> > To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
> > Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >
> >
> > MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock
> you in.
> > You have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same
> system as
> > Donna but prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are
> easier to
> > get.
> >
> >
> > On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with
> clipless pedals
> > (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint pedals
> with
> > straps, scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As
> long as I
> > make sure that I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps
> tight, I'm
> > good to go. I wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system
> if my
> > life depended on it...oh wait, it does.
> > Donna Smith
> >
> >
> > So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what are
> you
> > using for a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working
> for you and
> > what has NOT worked ?
> >
> >
> > JD
> >
> >
> > On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
> > I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
> >
> >
> > 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination
> that
> > NEVER comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents
> caused by
> > inadvertent detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with
> clips and
> > straps). I have never seen an injury directly because of a
> failure of the
> > pedal to release in a fall. Some riders use pedals that have an
> SPD or
> > other clip in mechanism AND straps on top of that. Some people have
> > actually bolted the shoes to the pedals, although this is really
> only
> > practical for top level timed events and sprints.
> >
> >
> > 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs
> to be
> > dabbed. They should be avoided at the track.
> >
> >
> > 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is
> OK for
> > training classes but should not be used for racing. There is no
> rule
> > against it but I think it should be avoided.
> >
> >
> > 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less
> about
> > strength a softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes
> tend to
> > be stiffer than road shoes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Murray
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of john
> > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
> > To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> > Robert,
> >
> > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
> > A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
> >
> > Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since match
> > sprinters are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate
> clip
> > versus clipless with them.
> >
> > However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine, and
> > probably preferred since they release without a struggle or
> without having
> > to reach down and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track
> racers
> > that race omnium events including the pros use the same Clipless
> pedals
> > and thus same shoes as on their road bike.
> >
> > If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with
> clipless
> > pedals then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals
> that offer
> > more free rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals
> i have
> > ever used were TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type
> pedals,
> > LOOK too now..), large float, they unclip easy but over at quite
> a large
> > angle so never accidentally released. . My issue with them
> though is
> > undefined and small pedal to shoe interface.
> >
> > If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted cleat,
> since
> > there is no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned
> properly,
> > preferably professionally or you will most likely hurt your
> knees. But
> > even then, In the old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so
> probably
> > saved knees. if i recall correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups
> > stiffened, knee injuries increased. Depends on what sort of
> rotation you
> > foot likes to do through a rotation. I had no issues when i
> first started
> > on toe and clip pedals and a cleated slot shoe. But if i tried
> to go back
> > now, i for sure would have issues...
> >
> > If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip
> Pedals,
> > it is rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start
> Track racing
> > is more about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe
> stiffness
> > is not as critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
> >
> > 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove
> with
> > grinding wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily
> goes into
> > the clip pedal. Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you
> could
> > maybe even find a stiff insole.. Err or you can do like did once
> with a
> > fibrous insole... work in some fiberglass epoxy... thin and
> fairly stiff.
> > .
> >
> > 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a
> > platform pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area,
> not a
> > thin plate pedal as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with
> the ball
> > of your foot and you want a nice flat surface to do this on..
> >
> > Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a
> little
> > further and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of
> clipping the
> > Alpenrose banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also
> since the
> > races are short , the pain is short if for example the strap is
> digging
> > into your foot.
> >
> > Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has a
> nice
> > collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there
> are still
> > purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike
> central ..
> > Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three
> hole Look
> > Style. Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the
> cleat when
> > worn. I use to use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like
> walkable shoes
> > for commuting) But seemed to have issue with accidental release
> here and
> > there.. and then once they didn't release until after my leg
> snapped. So
> > not a fan anymore of Steel on Steel pedal to cleat.
> >
> >
> >
> > My Stretchy Pants wrote:
> > I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats,
> and have
> > a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I
> stick in
> > the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the
> cleats? I
> > tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for
> a few
> > weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers
> were the
> > wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important
> religious
> > matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a
> purpose
> > built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
> >
> > Robert Synak
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > john m schmidt, pe
> > portland oregon
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
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> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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> attachment.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 28
> > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:47:10 +0000
> > From: johnfforbes@comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> > To: steve garcia , obra@list.obra.org
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <041520080147.3126.4804091E00049BB800000C3622147564029C0A0D9D010000020
> 80106@comcast.net>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Style points, Steve, style points. Now just don't wear any other
> kind of
> > thong...
> >
> > --
> > John Forbes
> > 3641 SW 52nd Place,
> > Portland, OR 97221
> > 503-422-1239
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: steve garcia
> >> So, my Shimano SPD Thongs are a no-go for the track? The Ebay
> listing
> >> said they
> >> were NJS though.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Mike Murray
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org
> >> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:31:47 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >>
> >>
> >> That is the MKS EXA Track Pedal.
> >>
> >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/trkped.html
> >> http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mks_exa_pedal.htm
> >>
> >> Definitely no inadvertent clip outs!! I have had a bit of
> difficulty
> >> getting
> >> them off riders who are on the deck.
> >>
> >> Mike Murray
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Steve Brown
> >> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 17:50 PM
> >> To: bikingmom@centurytel.net
> >> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >>
> >>
> >> MKS Keirin Style Track Pedals with a strap. These babies lock
> you in.
> >> You
> >> have to release the latch to get out. I also use the same
> system as
> >> Donna but
> >> prefer these. They are way cool and the cleats are easier to get.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:13 PM, bikingmom@centurytel.net wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I've had several accidental releases, all when riding with clipless
> >> pedals
> >> (Campy Daytona). I switched to "old school" durace sprint
> pedals with
> >> straps,
> >> scored from Brian (yeah, the guy with the hammer). As long as I
> make
> >> sure that
> >> I have the cleat system fully engaged and straps tight, I'm good
> to go.
> >> I
> >> wouldn't switch back to a straight clipless system if my life
> depended on
> >> it...oh wait, it does.
> >> Donna Smith
> >>
> >>
> >> So let's hear from more of you experienced track racers, what
> are you
> >> using for
> >> a pedal/cleat system on the track ? What IS working for you and
> what has
> >> NOT
> >> worked ?
> >>
> >>
> >> JD
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/13/08, Mike Murray wrote:
> >> I'd have to disagree with a couple of John's points:
> >>
> >>
> >> 1) For racing at the track you want a shoe and pedal combination
> that
> >> NEVER
> >> comes unclipped accidentally. I have seen many accidents caused by
> >> inadvertent
> >> detachment of the shoe from the pedal (even with clips and
> straps). I
> >> have
> >> never seen an injury directly because of a failure of the pedal to
> >> release in a
> >> fall. Some riders use pedals that have an SPD or other clip in
> mechanism
> >> AND
> >> straps on top of that. Some people have actually bolted the
> shoes to the
> >> pedals, although this is really only practical for top level
> timed events
> >> and
> >> sprints.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2) Mountain bike pedals are designed to release if a foot needs
> to be
> >> dabbed.
> >> They should be avoided at the track.
> >>
> >>
> >> 3) A shoe with no cleat used in a toe clips and straps pedal is
> OK for
> >> training
> >> classes but should not be used for racing. There is no rule
> against it
> >> but I
> >> think it should be avoided.
> >>
> >>
> >> 4) Although mass start track racing is more about spin and less
> about
> >> strength a
> >> softer flex shoe is inadequate. Track specific shoes tend to be
> stiffer
> >> than
> >> road shoes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Murray
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of john
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 14:29 PM
> >> To: My Stretchy Pants; 'OBRA list'
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cl.html
> >> A cleat can be for Toe-and-Clip pedals or for Clipless pedals.
> >>
> >> Match sprinters use toe and clip usually double straps. Since
> match
> >> sprinters
> >> are usually pretty strong, i don't think roadies debate clip versus
> >> clipless
> >> with them.
> >>
> >> However for mass start omnium events, clip-less pedals are fine,
> and
> >> probably
> >> preferred since they release without a struggle or without
> having to
> >> reach down
> >> and loosen the strap. Probably a majority of track racers that
> race
> >> omnium
> >> events including the pros use the same Clipless pedals and thus
> same
> >> shoes as on
> >> their road bike.
> >>
> >> If you concerned or if you are accidentally pulling out with
> clipless
> >> pedals
> >> then they aren't adjusted correctly or you need pedals that
> offer more
> >> free
> >> rotation before release. By far the most secure pedals i have
> ever used
> >> were
> >> TIME mtb pedals, or Eggbeaters (the "two bar" type pedals, LOOK too
> >> now..),
> >> large float, they unclip easy but over at quite a large angle so
> never
> >> accidentally released. . My issue with them though is undefined
> and
> >> small
> >> pedal to shoe interface.
> >>
> >> If you are going to use Toe-and-Clip pedals with a slotted
> cleat, since
> >> there is
> >> no float or rotation, You must get the cleats aligned properly,
> >> preferably
> >> professionally or you will most likely hurt your knees. But
> even then,
> >> In the
> >> old days the shoes were fairly sloppy and so probably saved
> knees. if i
> >> recall
> >> correctly, As cycling shoe's heel cups stiffened, knee injuries
> >> increased.
> >> Depends on what sort of rotation you foot likes to do through a
> rotation.
> >> I had
> >> no issues when i first started on toe and clip pedals and a
> cleated slot
> >> shoe.
> >> But if i tried to go back now, i for sure would have issues...
> >>
> >> If you are going to use tennis / running shoes with Toe and Clip
> Pedals,
> >> it is
> >> rare but there is nothing wrong with this. Mass start Track
> racing is
> >> more
> >> about high spin speeds and thus low forces, so high shoe
> stiffness is not
> >> as
> >> critical as in other types of bicycle racing.
> >>
> >> 1. You want a clean no frills shoe with minimal tread (or remove
> with
> >> grinding
> >> wheel Wire Brush..) Something that cleanly and easily goes into
> the clip
> >> pedal.
> >> Stiff thin outer sole if you can get it, or you could maybe even
> find a
> >> stiff
> >> insole.. Err or you can do like did once with a fibrous
> insole... work
> >> in some
> >> fiberglass epoxy... thin and fairly stiff. .
> >>
> >> 2. And Pedals (if using a running shoe), you want probably almost a
> >> platform
> >> pedal that takes strap and clip. You want surface area, not a
> thin plate
> >> pedal
> >> as for a slotted cleat. You want to push with the ball of your
> foot and
> >> you
> >> want a nice flat surface to do this on..
> >>
> >> Keep in mind with Clip and Strap pedals, they might stick out a
> little
> >> further
> >> and you thus you have to be a little more mindful of clipping the
> >> Alpenrose
> >> banking at slow speeds. Also tuck in laces. Also since the
> races are
> >> short ,
> >> the pain is short if for example the strap is digging into your
> foot.
> >>
> >> Check out Next Adventure and City Bikes, the latter usually has
> a nice
> >> collection of used shoes and pedals for cheap. For sure there
> are still
> >> purposely built toe and clip shoes for match sprinters. bike
> central ..
> >> Probably the most cost effective clipless pedals are the three
> hole Look
> >> Style.
> >> Not that i like them. Just make sure you replace the cleat when
> worn. I
> >> use to
> >> use shimano SPD pedals a lot (cause i like walkable shoes for
> commuting)
> >> But
> >> seemed to have issue with accidental release here and there..
> and then
> >> once they
> >> didn't release until after my leg snapped. So not a fan
> anymore of
> >> Steel on
> >> Steel pedal to cleat.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My Stretchy Pants wrote:
> >> I've heard that at the track, clips are preferred over cleats,
> and have
> >> a set of clips for my track bike. But what sort of shoes do I
> stick in
> >> the clips? Tennis shoes? Standard cycling shoes without the
> cleats? I
> >> tried using chuck taylors in the clips on a hill and thought for
> a few
> >> weeks after that I may have broken my foot. Clearly, sneakers
> were the
> >> wrong choice. Is the clip v. clipless question an important
> religious
> >> matter, regularly debated, like optimum spoke count? Is there a
> purpose
> >> built shoe experienced track racers use with clips?
> >>
> >> Robert Synak
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> john m schmidt, pe
> >> portland oregon
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An embedded message was scrubbed...
> > From: steve garcia
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shoes for Clips at Alpenrose
> > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:42:59 +0000
> > Size: 22317
> > Url:
> > http://list.obra.org/posts/obra/attachments/20080414/22b60811/
> attachment.eml
> >
> > ------------------------------
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> > End of OBRA Digest, Vol 28, Issue 17
> > ************************************
> >
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