Peter Gutwald

Unfortunately, it seems like the American Way has turned away from working
hard into sitting back and complaining about those that DO work hard.
Besides the value of the event itself, these promoters are no doubt working
hard and their TIME is worth money. I also know that these are folks who
love the sport, which is why I see guys like Jeff Mitchem and Jim Anderson
out there racing the events as well. (How many of us have offered to take
the reins of an event like PIR or some other race, those who are willing to
promote and manage the entire process are few and far between.)

Obviously the success of races at venues like PIR, Mt. Tabor, the CMG
Criterium, etc... shows that a large number of us value the product that
they are providing. To get sidetracked by the voices of a few who feel that
someone is "earning" too much from their hard work is pointless. I, for one
count my lucky stars that we have these events and the people that are
dedicated to providing the racing. No one is FORCING any of us to race, you
have an option, if you think it's too expensive, or if you think that the
product sucks... DON'T PAY FOR IT!

I guess it is easier to sit back and complain though.

2008/4/29 T B :

> So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical
> American.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:52 -0700
> From: kristinw@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really
> fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time
> in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to
> work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few)
> multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few
> hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot
> cheaper.
>
> Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?
>
>
>
> Kristin
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:
>
> This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
> me to no end - because I am a race director and
> there's a lot of ignorance out there.
>
> No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
> all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
> the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
> He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
> as a hundred other things.
>
> I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
> in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
> International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
> was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
> three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
> much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
> whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
> Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
> four years ago, and last year was the first year I
> turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.
>
> If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
> you might find this article interesting:
>
> http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf
>
> You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
> promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
> the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.
>
> hope this helps,
> Jeff
>
> --- Jeff Tedder & Shari
> wrote:
>
> > All good points everyone is making....
> > Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> > Duathlon race...Spendy...
> > Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> > Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> > getting new women and men out racing that probably
> > would never try a road race because of being
> > intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> > to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> > complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
> >
> > Jeff Tedder
> > Hammer Nutrition Products
> > Solid Core Training
> > 503-246-2388
> > cell 503-473-7650
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kevin Hedahl
> > To: obra
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> >
> > You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> > calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> > were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> > costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> > made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> > true that:
> >
> > a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> > a professional "job",
> >
> > b.. health insurance is not provided,
> >
> > c.. you don't get sick days,
> > d.. no 401k,
> >
> > e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.
> > Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> > don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> > they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> > out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> > a race and never complain again.
> >
> > /kevin hedahl
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> > wrote:
> >
> > Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> > this a great country or what?
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > T B wrote:
> >
> > > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> > myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> > numbers given and all, it
> > > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> > nights such as the Tuesday
> > > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> > profit for one race. That
> > > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> > profit when single day
> > > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> > should focus on being
> > > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> > bucks. But it makes people
> > > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> > can be squeezed into an
> > > ever tight budget.
> > >
> > > My math;
> > >
> > > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> > Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> > (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > > dollars for insurance
> > > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> > dollars (which i have to
> > > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> > weekly basis. its actually
> > > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> > occur)
> > >
> > > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> > be a fair average to
> > > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> > season).
> > >
> > > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> > >
> > > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> > for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> > ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > > make an error in my math)
> > >
> > > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> > >
> > > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> > and out of boredom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> > cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> > rent. The truck rental
> > > is $50, the first aid person and the
> > officials all get paid. So I
> > > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> > $550 before the first
> > > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> > for the liability
> > > insurance and surcharges.
> > >
> > > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> > not use the truck and
> > > the race organizer is a first aid
> > provider, so the costs are much
> > > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> > juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> > >
> > > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> > snot make a profit there
> > > will be no events for you to race.
> > >
> > > Candi
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *r r
> > > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > >
> > > I am going to take this email as an
> > opportunity this jedi has been
> > > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> > bucks a shot every
> > > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> > weekly event. Unless PIR
> > > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> > venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > > drastically over priced for what it is.
> > Yes, i know you can buy a
> > > season pass, but some of us are not in
> > Portland for the entire PIR
> > > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> > month. At least the
> > > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> > best deal is 5 bucks to
> > > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> > there are officials and
> > > everything there just like PIR, the only
> > possible difference is
> > > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> > But as far as i see it,
> > > there is no reason a weekly series race
> > should cost almost as much
> > > as other events that are only held once a
> > year.
> > >
> > > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> > have gathered over time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > > >
> > > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> > comments. Flyer was read while
> > > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> > brown belt and he did
> >
> === message truncated ===>
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>
>
>
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>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
> Back to work after baby– how do you know when you're ready?
>
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