Jess Mace
ItÂ’s a common misnomer at this level of competition to think that aero-gear is a huge
technical advantage over strong and targeted training. I'm not saying it does not help or provide some kind
of advantage to many riders, however I've passed quite a few guys on Cervelo P3's with full
Zipp componentry and wheelsets on my old aluminum TT set up...and have been passed by quite a few more
guys no aerogear whatsoever...I've raced and learned enough now to not credit TT placements with one's expendable income..
thinking otherwise is simply falling for what a good marketer has told you in some advertisement.
Jess Mace, MPH
Clinical Outcomes Research - Oregon Sinus Center
Department of Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Karsten Hagen
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:23 PM
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
How about taking a cue from the DH crowd and running a "traditional"
category of TT at districts, similar to the Hardtail category in some DH
events. Meaning only standard road equipment is allowed (skinsuits OK).
That way, "buying speed" is not necessarily a ticket to a district medal.
Karsten
On 8/19/08 5:12 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
> TTs are in stage races primarily because otherwise there would be multiple
> riders that finished with the same time; i.e. multiple riders tied for
> places with o reasonable way to sort them out. This occurs because a single
> time is given for all riders that finish in a group together. Pack time is
> a reasonable method and is done universally in bike racing. In the past it
> was impossible to give riders their own finish time. This could be done
> with current timing equipment but I don't think we want to encourage
> everyone sprinting in so that they don't lose the time between 20th and
> 40th. I am also not sure it would be such a great idea for us to do things
> so different from everyone else in the world.
>
> A separate category for TT would be possible but stage races will still need
> to be divided by road category and will still need to include a TT. It
> would also require a fair amount more administrative work. If someone wants
> there to be separate categories for they can feel free to propose that rule
> change through the rule change process outline in the first paragraph of the
> rules.
>
> An alternative the I would suggest is that all TTs produce overall results
> for all competitors listing the fastest to slowest. There could then be
> secondary results done for specific groups; individual categories, age
> groups, home town, hair color ... Whatever. I see no reason why a single
> rider could not be the 5th place overall, 1st place Cat 4 and 2nd place 35+.
>
> I also don't think that the importance of TT specific equipment should be
> over emphasized. There is a measurable benefit from a skinsuit, TT bars and
> aero wheels (mostly front wheel) but the other stuff provides minimal
> benefit. Even a purchase of a maximal amount of TT equipment is only likely
> to improve placing by a small amount. Most people could ride a stage race
> TT on their regular road bike and they GC position would be minimally
> effected.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 15:22 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
>
>
>
>
>
> No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
>
> I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own
> institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that,
> this post isn't for you.
>
> The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it
> in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has
> here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of
> fair competition and success.
>
> And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it
> would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and
> beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium
> and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But
> that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
>
> As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct discipline
> than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that
> it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake
> of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little
> to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
>
> Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the
> garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate
> discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more
> attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
>
> And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a
> subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists
> entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood
> Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a
> min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking
> he does.
>
> Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik wrote:
>
> Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote
> that.
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