gschreckchat@comcast.net
And on hill claims, we could weight the bikes and have differnt categories for each rider by weight of bike.
Some people have time to train more, which is not fair to those who do not have the time or desire, so we could have categories by hours trained per week.
We could have TT's broken down by shoulder width, becuase as we all know, people with wide shoulders have a disadvantage aerodynamically.
I think if we are creative enough, we can ensure everyone goes home with a gold medal and can be proud of themselves no mater how slow they are or how little effort they put in to the sport.
After all, it really is unfair that many people cannot say they are the best. Everyone should be the best.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Karsten Hagen
> How about taking a cue from the DH crowd and running a "traditional"
> category of TT at districts, similar to the Hardtail category in some DH
> events. Meaning only standard road equipment is allowed (skinsuits OK).
> That way, "buying speed" is not necessarily a ticket to a district medal.
>
> Karsten
>
>
> On 8/19/08 5:12 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
> > TTs are in stage races primarily because otherwise there would be multiple
> > riders that finished with the same time; i.e. multiple riders tied for
> > places with o reasonable way to sort them out. This occurs because a single
> > time is given for all riders that finish in a group together. Pack time is
> > a reasonable method and is done universally in bike racing. In the past it
> > was impossible to give riders their own finish time. This could be done
> > with current timing equipment but I don't think we want to encourage
> > everyone sprinting in so that they don't lose the time between 20th and
> > 40th. I am also not sure it would be such a great idea for us to do things
> > so different from everyone else in the world.
> >
> > A separate category for TT would be possible but stage races will still need
> > to be divided by road category and will still need to include a TT. It
> > would also require a fair amount more administrative work. If someone wants
> > there to be separate categories for they can feel free to propose that rule
> > change through the rule change process outline in the first paragraph of the
> > rules.
> >
> > An alternative the I would suggest is that all TTs produce overall results
> > for all competitors listing the fastest to slowest. There could then be
> > secondary results done for specific groups; individual categories, age
> > groups, home town, hair color ... Whatever. I see no reason why a single
> > rider could not be the 5th place overall, 1st place Cat 4 and 2nd place 35+.
> >
> > I also don't think that the importance of TT specific equipment should be
> > over emphasized. There is a measurable benefit from a skinsuit, TT bars and
> > aero wheels (mostly front wheel) but the other stuff provides minimal
> > benefit. Even a purchase of a maximal amount of TT equipment is only likely
> > to improve placing by a small amount. Most people could ride a stage race
> > TT on their regular road bike and they GC position would be minimally
> > effected.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Brian
> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 15:22 PM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
> >
> > I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own
> > institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that,
> > this post isn't for you.
> >
> > The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it
> > in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has
> > here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of
> > fair competition and success.
> >
> > And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it
> > would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and
> > beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium
> > and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But
> > that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
> >
> > As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct discipline
> > than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that
> > it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake
> > of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little
> > to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
> >
> > Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the
> > garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate
> > discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more
> > attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
> >
> > And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a
> > subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists
> > entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood
> > Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a
> > min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking
> > he does.
> >
> > Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Erik wrote:
> >
> > Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote
> > that.
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