Fergus
I googled, "state vs. potter" and it turns out there is some guy with
a lot of coke and big stick that gets in a tangle with the cops.
Tough break!
On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:
> Doug,
>
> If you want to argue law, swing for the cheap seats and argue ORS
> 814.420(2), the hearing requirement.
>
> I will tell you no hearing have ever been held for any bike lane in
> the entire state of Oregon. I will also tell you I am lawyer, and
> despite the lack of hearing, the courts regularly convict people for
> this violation. Google "state vs. potter" to read all about it.
> Though in the past few years I've not seen as many personally.
>
> Mark
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
> Attorneys At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
> --- On Sun, 4/12/09, Sami Fournier wrote:
> From: Sami Fournier
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are you thinking?
> To: "Doug Hormann" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
>
> Doug,
>
> Sorry, but according to the ORS 814.420 quoted below, exceptions to
> the requirement to use the bike lane include:
>
> When a hazard exists
> When passing
> When turning left
>
> A hazard includes any surface or other impediment in the bike lane,
> or any vehicle, including a possible right turning car. I advise
> all my students to leave the bike lane if they are going straight
> through at an intersection, in order to avoid the 'right hook' and
> the law is on my side there, as you can read below.
>
> Your interpretation of what's legal is shared by many misinformed
> motorists, but it would be easily countered in court, by any good
> lawyer, and in any case, it's wrong.
>
> Sorry to be blunt, but cyclists especially are obligated to know the
> law.
>
> 814.420 Failure to use bicycle lane or path; exceptions; penalty.
> (1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a
> person commits the offense of failure to use a bicycle lane or path
> if the person operates a bicycle on any portion of a roadway that is
> not a bicycle lane or bicycle path when a bicycle lane or bicycle
> path is adjacent to or near the roadway.
> (2) A person is not required to comply with this section
> unless the state or local authority with jurisdiction over the
> roadway finds, after public hearing, that the bicycle lane or
> bicycle path is suitable for safe bicycle use at reasonable rates of
> speed.
>
> (3) A person is not in violation of the offense under this
> section if the person is able to safely move out of the bicycle lane
> or path for the purpose of:
>
> (a) Overtaking and passing another bicycle, a vehicle or a
> pedestrian that is in the bicycle lane or path and passage cannot
> safely be made in the lane or path.
>
> (b) Preparing to execute a left turn at an intersection or
> into a private road or driveway.
>
> (c) Avoiding debris or other hazardous conditions.
>
> (d) Preparing to execute a right turn where a right turn is
> authorized.
>
> (e) Continuing straight at an intersection where the bicycle
> lane or path is to the right of a lane from which a motor vehicle
> must turn right.
>
> (4) The offense described in this section, failure to use a
> bicycle lane or path, is a Class D traffic violation. [1983 c.338
> §700; 1985 c.16 §338; 2005 c.316 §3]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 4/11/09, Doug Hormann wrote:
>
> From: Doug Hormann
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What was he thinking.
> To: "'Obra'"
> Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 4:10 PM
>
> You were fine until you wrote legally elected not to follow the
> bike lane. Unless the bike lane was unsafe to a reasonable person
> (full of trash, glass, under construction, under water) there is no
> choice to be made here. The bike lane is the legal path and you may
> not legally deviate from it. Convenience; not having to slow
> down; etc. are not legal reasons to leave the path/lane. The path
> in that spot is there to prevent exactly this sort of situation.
> The driver of the bus has the obligation to exibit due care when
> operating the bus, just as cyclists have the same obligation; so if
> the driver of the bus had seen the bicycle and sped up to show him
> whos boss then there might be a culpable mental state of the part
> of the driver. Having said all that, Ive been known to take the
> road vs. the bike lane or path just because I want to, but that
> doesnt mean that I can cry foul if I get injured or squashed.
>
>
> Doug Hormann
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Catlin, Wil
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:31 PM
> To: Justin Serna; Chris Alling; Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What was he thinking.
>
>
>
> Yup, its hard enough for folks to follow the details of even this
> one specific situation.
>
>
> There was no lane holding by the cyclist: thats the problem. The
> on ramp there is its own lane in parallel with the two on Barbur
> that it joins. Form that point down to the Front St. pullout (or so)
> there are three lanes on Barbur.
>
>
> So, the cyclist legally elected not to follow the bike lane and
> remained in the right lane. Fine. BUT, once he passed Capitol HWY he
> found himself no longer in the right lane but in the center lane.
> Bus is in the right lane, heading on down the road toward its next
> stop like all buses do when they arent out hunting for cyclists.
> Fine again, in that at least the bus is not demonstrably hunting.
> However, the cyclist then decides he just cant wait for the bus to
> pass, in fact wants to beat that damn bus, demoralize the
> indifferent, godless thing, and forthwith treats all and sundry to a
> mortality-flaunting display of horsepower and senseless verve by
> outpacing and then Oh! cutting past the beast, through the lane, a
> hairs breadth from harm, safely into the
bike lane. Surely the
> stuff of demi-gods on earth, yes? Cripes.
>
>
> At least, at the very, very least, if cornered and stopped, if
> pressed by cops or irate drivers, the cyclist wouldnt have gazed
> bewildered at the gathered crowd and said
Bus? I never saw it.
>
>
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Justin Serna
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:03 PM
> To: Chris Alling; Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What was he thinking.
>
>
> I would have to agree with Chris in this situation if the cyclist
> was in fact traveling at the speeds you described he had every right
> to hold the lane he was in and the bus should have given him the
> right of way. However I will agree with you that merging in front
> of a bus at that speed and proximity is very dangerous. I have
> found that quite often bus drivers can be the worst offenders when
> it comes to giving way to cyclist. Unfortunately with the increased
> popularity of cycling we will see many different types of riders
> just as we see in those who drive automobiles. I think the key is
> to judge each situation as an individual case and then remember that
> everyone has a point of view, but I guess that would be a bit
> idealistic.
>
>
> Cheers and safe training and riding..........
>
>
> J. Serna
>
> #1250
>
>
>
>
> From: Chris Alling
> To: Obra
> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 10:54:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What was he thinking.
>
> >From your description it sounds as if the bus should have yielded
> the right of way to the cyclist and he should be lambasted for not
> applying the brakes and yielding. It sounds like the bike was
> traveling legally with the flow af traffic.
>
>
> From: JRaedeke@roguecc.edu
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:07:49 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What was he thinking.
>
> Amen !!! Lets all try to not give motorists any reasons to dislike
> cyclist on the roadways. Lets make positive progress.
>
> john
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Mike Rosenfeld
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:38 AM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] What was he thinking.
>
>
> I am not one to publicly lambaste another cyclist but I witnessed
> such a huge display stupidity this morning I have to take the time
> to vent.
>
> The incident took place where Capitol Highway merges onto Barbur
> Blvd. I have attached a picture of the area to refresh memories.
>
> There is a bike path for those heading towards downtown to go around
> the overpass and then merge back onto Barbur Blvd safely.
>
> It was about 7:45am, pouring down rain, and very low visibility.
>
> I was driving (yes I know...you can pick on me for driving) towards
> downtown and was passing under the overpass. I see a cyclist with
> minimal lighting and dark cycling gear, The rain jacket was Red,
> bluish helmet. I would have to gauge this cyclist as a racer due to
> the type of bike, smooth spin, and speed at which he was traveling,
> also the gear was indicative of someone who knows how to ride in the
> rain....speed would be maybe 25 to 30 mph. They decide to bypass
> the bike path round-about and go under the over pass.
>
> As I close the distance and pass under the overpass I see a Trimet
> bus coming down the ramp getting ready to merge onto Barbur from
> Capitol.
>
> The cyclist stands up and starts to sprint.
>
> The Bus increases speed.
>
> I slow down in case the cyclist needs to veer into my lane....Every
> muscle in my body tenses and I mutter a curse under my breath
> through clenched jaws as the cyclist cuts across in front of the
> bus. And this is no joke.....there was only 5 feet of clearance
> between the rear wheel of the cyclist and the bus...it was even less
> by the time the cyclist clears the bumper of the bus and is safely
> across the lane.
>
> The brake lights on the bus never even flickered.
>
> I really thought I was going to watch this guy die....not just hurt
> but actually dead. The bus was doing at least mid 30's and would
> have smeared the cyclist for at least 100+ feet before stopping.
>
> This is the sort of thing that gives people legitimate complaints
> against cyclists.
>
> I know the argument that some experienced cyclists have with regards
> to being in control of their environment and know the limitations of
> their handling skills and speeds....but for goodness sake this was
> just down right STUPID!!
>
> I hope the cyclist is in fact a racer, a member of OBRA, and is
> reading this. My message to you is this:
>
> Your actions impact more than just you. If you had been wrong in
> your abilities to clear the buses bumper, I and at least 30+ other
> people would have watch you die. Horribly. Think of how the
> driver of the bus would have felt knowing he or she had taken your
> life. For what?? 30 extra seconds? Not wanting to deal a little
> bit of gravel? Think about this before you do something like this
> again. Your actions.....your decisions....have consequences to
> yourself and others.
>
> I am a cyclist. I have been riding both competitively and for
> leisure on and off for 25 years. I state this to lend credence to
> my assessment of the situation.
>
>
> Mike Rosenfeld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. Check
> it out.
>
>
>
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>
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